From our archives posted by Gordon Williamson a number of years back.
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Post #2 is where the new "timeline" is available. I have also attached the Kai Winkler badges here to reflect the curved and square catches referred to by Norm in that post.
The first is the square catch, the second the curved catch.
JohnComment
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In addition, I have had to go back and edit many of the previous posts to delete references to the old timeline since they would no longer match up.
Hope this is an interesting thead and once again, a big thanks to Norm for looking over hundreds of threads relating to the Schwerin U-boat badge.
JohnComment
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A few additional points:Type 1: thin neck, large maker mark, round wire catch (the most common variant posted, the classic "1st pattern")
Type 2 (transitional): thick neck, unmarked, round wire catch (only two examples posted on WAF - Dai's and Adam S.'s)
Type 3 (transitional): thick neck, large maker mark, curved flat wire catch (only 3 examples posted on WAF - mooseran's, Karsten S.'s and Ralph A.'s, also one of these on Kai Winkler's site as of 29 Oct 2010)
Type 4 (transitional): thick neck, unmarked, curved flat wire catch (a nice one on Kai Winkler's site as of 29 Oct 2010)
Type 5 (transitional): thick neck, small maker mark, squared flat wire catch (only two good examples posted - Jody's and Dennis P.'s)
Type 6: thick neck, unmarked, squared flat wire catch (the second most common variant posted, the classic "2nd pattern")
Type 7: thick neck, unmarked, squared flat wire catch, flipped hinge block (the "S&L catalogue" model)
Type 7a (exception?): thick neck, medium maker mark, squared flat wire catch, flipped hinge block (like the "S&L catalogue" model but George Stimson's example is the only marked one and a very similar mark seen on a zinc Deumer)
Type 8: zinc, thick neck, unmarked, squared flat wire catch on catch plate, typical zincer Schwerin pin setup (only a few examples)
The posting of Gordon's badges in post #64 nicely illustrates the classic unmarked 2nd pattern badge on the left compared with the classic 1st pattern badge on the right (although the 2nd pattern has an earlier-style dome-head hinge-pin, and the 1st pattern has a variant main pin).
Previously Rob and John noted that the 1st pattern eagle retains a matte finish to the upper horizontal wing feathers of the eagle, whereas in the 2nd pattern badges this area is burnished. In the above schema, Types 1 through 4 have the unburnished wing feathers while Types 5 to 7a are burnished.
Neck thickness is often distorted by the angle of the photograph and is generally best assessed from the reverse view. Although there are some subtle variations in neck thickness making that a difficult characteristic to categorize, the classic marked Type 1 badges seem quite consistent in their head/neck outlines while the unmarked Type 2 and other transitionals already show some subtle thickening in the neck under the beak.
Here are a few collages of eagles from badges posted by WAF contributors.
Best regards,
---NormLast edited by Norm F; 10-30-2010, 12:14 AM.Comment
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A few Type 6, classic unmarked "2nd pattern" examples with the usual flat-head hinge-pins.
The two rare examples of the Type 5 with the small maker mark (Jody's and Dennis' posted previously in this thread) both have waffle-head hinge-pins.Comment
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Although the svelte trimmed-beak eagle seen on the previous examples is exclusive to Type 1, the attached example here from Weitze's site shows that even within the time frame of Type 1 production you can see some thickening of the beak and neck, likely from differences in trimming/finishing.Comment
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Just to clarify the presumed timeline of the hinge-pins:Originally posted by Norm F View Post
Types 1 to 4 - dome-head hinge-pins
Types 5 and early 6 - flattened, waffle-head hinge-pins
Types 6,7,8 - headless hinge-pins
Cheers.
---NormComment
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I just noticed that the 2nd pattern badge on the left in Gordon's post is the same example he included in "Torpedo Los", in which it can be seen to have the curved flatwire catch, so this is a Type 4.Originally posted by Norm F View PostComment
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I see this badge posted previously by Darrell and Mike is a true unmarked Type 1 with the svelte, cut out beak and neck, unlike the thicker necked Type 2 from Dai and Adam. So far the only example of this we've seen on the forum as the vast majority of Type 1 badges have the large maker mark.Originally posted by Darrell View PostHere is one that Mike Kenny posted a while back (hope you don't mind Mike
) that has round wire catch but no marker Mark.Comment
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NOTE: OUT OF DATE. GO TO POST 99 FOR CURRENT TIMELINE
Summary of where we are with this study. All the following images and narrative thanks to Norm.
The previously described 8 sub-types have now been consolidated into this simplified 6-type classification for future reference. Although this may at first cause some confusion when reading the earlier postings, it makes a more logical system going forward from here.
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Presented here is the new “Timeline” of Schwerin U-boats, and later will follow some sample images culled from the internet and forum submissions:
Type 1a: thin neck, large maker mark, dome-head hinge pin, round wire catch (the most common variant, the classic "1st pattern")
Type 1b: same as Type 1 but unmarked (rare)
Type 2a (transitional): thick neck, large maker mark, dome-head hinge pin, round wire catch
Type 2b (transitional): same as Type 2 but unmarked
Type 3a (transitional): thick neck, large maker mark, dome-head hinge pin, curved flat wire catch
Type 3b (transitional): same as Type 3 but unmarked
Type 4a: thick neck, small maker mark, flat waffle-head hinge pin, squared flat wire catch. (rare)
Type 4b: thick neck, unmarked, waffle-head hinge pin, squared flat wire catch (the second most common variant, the classic "2nd pattern")
Type 4c: same as Type 4b but headless hinge pin
Type 5a: thick neck, unmarked, dome-head hinge pin, squared flat wire catch, flipped hinge block (the "S&L catalogue" model)
Type 5b: same as Type 5a but flat-head hinge pin
Type 5c: same as Type 5a but headless hinge pin
Type 6: zinc, thick neck, unmarked, squared flat wire catch on catch plate, typical zincer Schwerin pin setup (rare)
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First, examples of Types 1 and 2 are attached.
I believe the unmarked example (1b) was originally posted by Mike Kenny some years back, and it's the only unmarked one of this thin-necked type that I've seen to date. Having said that, I imagine I see some slight die differences around the rudder, and of course the hinge block and cutout around the gun are slightly different as well.
The small difference going from Type 1 to Type 2 is the difference in the cutout under the eagle's beak, resulting in a slightly thickened beak and neck in the Type 2, reminiscent of the further thickening seen in "later" subtypes.Last edited by John R.; 08-12-2015, 12:50 PM.Comment
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The main difference in Type 3 is the transition to the curved flat wire catch.Type 3a (transitional): thick neck, large maker mark, dome-head hinge pin, curved flat wire catch
Type 3b (transitional): same as Type 3 but unmarked
I have seen only 3 examples posted here over the years with a maker mark, and it is the small maker mark, different from the larger marks seen in the Type 1. The Type 4a seen here was previously posted by Jody.Type 4a: thick neck, small maker mark, flat waffle-head hinge pin, squared flat wire catch. (rare)
Type 4b: thick neck, unmarked, waffle-head hinge pin, squared flat wire catch (the second most common variant, the classic "2nd pattern")
Type 4c: same as Type 4b but headless hinge pin
With Type 4 we transition to the classic "2nd pattern" Schwerin with the squared flat wire catch which is almost exclusively unmarked. Note that now we see the typical more circular cutout under the eagle's beak.Last edited by John R.; 11-21-2010, 08:17 PM.Comment
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Type 5 has the flipped hinge block with the long pin which is reminiscent of the S&L catalogue image. It has been pointed out that the svelte, cut-out appearance of the eagle's head in the catalogue is more reminiscent of the Type 1, but one has to remember that this is a drawing, and the actual obverse design of the eagle is unchanged so it's perhaps not surprising that the cut margins of the image differ from the actual badge. Yet, the silhouette of the long pin is worthy of note.Type 5a: thick neck, unmarked, dome-head hinge pin, squared flat wire catch, flipped hinge block (the "S&L catalogue" model)
Type 5b: same as Type 5a but flat-head hinge pin
Type 5c: same as Type 5a but headless hinge pin
If we accept at face value Klietmann's statement that Schwerin was the sole producer of the U-boat badge for the KM until Spring 1941, while the S&L catalogue from late 1940/41 showed images of the Schwerin badges, it's logical (but unproven) to speculate that Schwerin supplied S&L until they were tooled up for their own production later.Last edited by John R.; 11-21-2010, 08:18 PM.Comment
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This setup is typical for other Schwerin zinc badges, and is different from that seen on the similar Deumer-attributed zinc U-boat. In fact, the similarities suggest that they are from sister dies, another possible Schwerin/Lüdenscheid link.Type 6: zinc, thick neck, unmarked, squared flat wire catch on catch plate, typical zincer Schwerin pin setup (rare)
This example of the zinc (Type 6) was originally posted by Rob Hudspith.
Also, here's a comparison to show the difference between the rare small maker mark seen on Type 4a and the usual large maker mark typical to the "earlier" badges. As well I've appended the "extra-large" seen on some post-war reproductions.Last edited by John R.; 11-21-2010, 08:18 PM.Comment
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In this schema, Type 1 is the classic “1st pattern” Schwerin, usually maker marked and with the narrow neck and round wire catch, while Type 4 is what’s sometimes called the “2nd pattern”, usually unmarked, with thick neck and squared flat wire catch.
It’s important to note that the difference in the eagle’s head between these two types is not based on a different obverse design but rather differences in cutouts and hand finishing, thus giving a different overall impression.
Here are some collages with examples of the 1st and 2nd pattern eagles to illustrate the differences. As noted by Rob in the past, the Type 1 has a matte finish to the horizontal upper wing feathers while the Type 4 has burnished wing tops.Last edited by John R.; 11-15-2010, 09:53 AM.Comment
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