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Opinions please...HSF & Sub (WWI & WWII)

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    #1

    Opinions please...HSF & Sub (WWI & WWII)

    I would love to hear your thoughts on these 4 badges. First is the left row... top is a WWI Sub with the #2 stamped into the pin for C.E. Junker? Below it, is a WWII Sub with cut out swazzy stamped Frank & Reif STUTTGART. The right row...top is a WWII Sub with cut out swazzy. Nice "French" style back with a horizontal pin and small hook mounted behind the eagle. Stamped Schwerin BERLIN 68. Stick pin came with it though I can not make out the maker it has a wonderful knurled pin. Below it is a HSF marked with raised letterings FEC. ADOLF BOCK AUSF.SCHWERIN BERLIN.
    Front of KM badges...
    Attached Files
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    #2
    Opinions please...HSF & Sub (WWI & WWII)

    Back side of KM badges...
    Attached Files

    Comment

      #3
      Opinions please...HSF & Sub (WWI & WWII)

      Left row close up of back side...
      Attached Files

      Comment

        #4
        Opinions please...HSF & Sub (WWI & WWII)

        Right row close up of back side...
        Attached Files

        Comment

          #5
          KM badges

          Hello,
          I have some bad news, all of your KM badges are bad (although I can't see the stick pin very well, it does not look good either). The Frank and Reif U-boat is an old fake and has been discussed on this forum countless times. The WWI U-boat, the Schwerin Berlin U-boat and the HSF badge are all poor quality reproductions. The WWI and WWII U-boat badges are not even close to the real thing. Here is a link to originals in my collection and you can compare: http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...dge+collection

          Can you return them?

          Regards,
          Jody
          Last edited by Jody Beltram; 08-08-2007, 09:01 PM.

          Comment

            #6
            Jody nailed it, all of them are fakes.


            Al

            Comment

              #7
              "Nice "French" style back with a horizontal pin and small hook mounted behind the eagle. Stamped Schwerin BERLIN 68."


              French?




              Al

              Comment

                #8
                I am not that familiar with miniatures or Imperial badges but the others definately look like reproductions.
                Al,the reverse set-up on the HSF badge looks similar to the repro i sent you a few months back.

                Regards,Martin.

                Comment

                  #9
                  Yup, that large block hinge makes these easy to spot.

                  Al

                  Comment

                    #10
                    KM badges

                    Originally posted by Al P View Post
                    "Nice "French" style back with a horizontal pin and small hook mounted behind the eagle. Stamped Schwerin BERLIN 68."

                    French?
                    Al
                    Hi Al,
                    I agree, I don't know where he got the idea that is a "French" style back. The fake Imperial U-boat and the Schwerin Berlin fake dates back to the mid 80's. You can also see that Imperial U-boat badge with a simple crown mark on the pin or a #21.

                    As you said the square block hinge on the HSF is a fake that has been around for some time.

                    I wonder if these badges were all bought off of the same person?

                    Regards,
                    Jody
                    Last edited by Jody Beltram; 08-09-2007, 01:29 PM.

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Hi sorry but would agree all are fakes. Hope you can take them back.

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Opinions please...HSF & Sub (WWI & WWII)

                        Well guys, as I sit here drownding my sorrows in some ice cold Fosters, I wonder what else I own in my collection is fake and that scares me to death. But first I would like to say "Thank You" to all who answered my post, even though it was not the answers I was hoping for. I was hoping that at least one would be an original find. I will be stuck with two of the four, both WWII Subs are mine forever, as one was bought from a collector who passed away last December and the other from an Antique junk shop that sold out to Wal-Mart. As for the other two I will have to wait to see that dealer at the gun show he sets up at later this fall. Where did I come up with the "French" style back on the top badge...well, I seen it in Christopher Ailsby's book Combat Medals of the Third Reich on page 141. It's in referance to a HSF badge with simular pin and hook configuration as I see on my Sub badge, so I used it. Rob.

                        Comment

                          #13
                          On the French thing: I thought it may have come from the sales pitch for the badge, and there was still hope that you did not own the badge; but I see that is not the case.

                          It sucks finding out what you had thought was original is not, but if you learn something along the way, the loss of cash does not hurt as much.

                          Al

                          When you are up to it and have a good stock of beer, post some of your other items to the appropriate forums for review.

                          Comment

                            #14
                            Hi Rob,

                            I saw your thread and was hoping that you had these items "on spec". I do hope you can get your money back on the two badges from the dealer.

                            The other guys have already imo correctly evaluated the items as all bad unfortunately.

                            The HSF is a decent looking repro from the front but the reverse, especially when compared next to an original, is well off the mark. The hardware and the maker mark (2 font sizes on the repro, whereas on genuine examples it was only one font height) are the biggest giveaways. Many collectors have been fooled by these ones.

                            The Schwerin U-boat appears to have the obverse characteristics of an original but the reverse hardware is simply all wrong for Schwerin - they did not use a horizontal main pin with top hook on their U-boat badges (they did on Destroyer and E-bost Badges though).

                            The F&R U-boat fooled a lot of collectors when they first came out in the 80s - very good quality but pure fake unfortunately.

                            Don't give up heart. Use the search function at the top of the page and there is a wealth of info to be found on both good and bad badges. If at all possible, research any future purchases before you buy them and there's a much better chance you'll only be buying original from now on.

                            Regards
                            Mike
                            Regards
                            Mike

                            Evaluate the item, not the story and not the seller's reputation!

                            If you PM/contact me without the courtesy of using your first name, please don't be offended if I politely ignore you!

                            Comment

                              #15
                              Opinions please...HSF & Sub (WWI & WWII)

                              Thanks for the words of encuragement and I will do my best to keep a positive attitude, but I will tell you, at this point it's very hard to do that. I do have a couple of Luftwaffe Transports Clasps on the Luftwaffe awards site if anyone is interested in leaving their opinions on them, but so far there is none, so no news is good news??? I truley hope it's better news than these four. This is an eye opening and exspencive learning experiance. Even though most have been in my position for over eight years (long before I own a computer) this has helped me out a great deal and I hope to and want to rely on the many knowledgeable individuals from this site if I look to buy another KM badge. Rob.

                              Comment

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