Minesweeper Juncker?

[Mark S.]

I could beleive that this is a Juncker. I mean, why not? Its got the right hinge & pin, Juncker made naval badges...it wouldnt be much of stretch to think they made Minesweeper badges too.

[Philippe DB]

Hi Mads

I'll post two pics one off an early marked Navy Artillery Juncker and the other of an early unmarked Juncker Auxiliary Cruiser. The last pic I borrowed from John but since it should arrive at my place any day now I hope he doesn't mind.

Typical features for me on these juncker pins is that they are cut very straight on top and that they are not realy symmetrical. They also only open at an angle of 90%. If you find al these features on your pin than I thinkyour save in assuming that it might be a Juncker. If not, no problem, it always will stay a very nice early minesweeper.

KR
Philippe

[Philippe DB]

Unmarked Juncker ACB

[Lorenzo Brown]

OR...the pins are both "beveled" at the top so they go back more than 90%. This came up a while back when we were analyzing the "unmarked" Auxiliary Cruiser badge and the Juncker Coastal Arty.

[mads]

here are som pictures of the hinge and pin, it does not have the same characteristics of your badge Philippe.
And it does not seem to have an identical pin top with yours either Lorenzo.
Maybe this is not a Juncker at all, but I still love it and think it is as you say a super badge.
I will surely keep it for a long time.

[mads]

hinge and pin seen from above:

[Mark S.]

Very interesting!

Judging from the file marks, I would have to say the bevel cut was done by hand at some point, probably before the pin was attached. Perhaps the beveling was started well into production, the uncut versions being earlier production? At any rate, it was obvioulsy an afterthought, as it certainly isnt any type of die characteristic.

The way I see, both types are right. This would make the minesweeper fall into the "Phillipe class". Maybe we can dig up another minesweeper like this with a bevel cut to match up to a "Lorenzo class"?

yet another thought that popped into my head (all this before breakfast ) is why they deemed it necessary to bevel the pin? Why did it need to open all the way?

of course, just pondering.

[Lorenzo Brown]

My error, Mark. Actually, the pins open only slightly more than 90 degrees....about 95 degrees. They are prevented from opening more by the flat areas (shown by the arrows.) So why were they beveled?

Maybe the intial thought was that the beveling would allow them to open more than that. Realizing that the beveling didn't contribute that much, perhaps they stopped beveling to save production cost?

It is interesting to me that BOTH the Auxiliary badge and the Juncker Coastal Arty display BOTH types of pins. This suggests to me even further evidence that the unmarked Auxiliary cruiser was made by Juncker.

When I intially studied these badges I noted that the hinges and pins were EXACTLY the same on both badges. See the upper picture of the pins...EXACT same length, thickness and construction.

Looking at my Minesweeper badge (presumably the same as mads' badge) I note that the hinge looks to be the same as on the Juncker badges...BUT the pin is entirely different. The pin on the Minesweeper is longer and not as thick as on the Juncker badges. Also the constuction is different.

[mads]

mine opens to about 105 degrees and stops to rest nicely on the beveling.
just an observation.

Mads

[mads]

here is a picture:

[Philippe DB]

Hi Lorenzo,

Interesting information on the pin differences. I think it would be nice to find out if this difference can be linked to a production periode or if both type of pins were used random.

While doing some research for myself on the Juncker artillerie badge I distinguished between seven different types that I put in a chronological order. Since most of my findings are based on pics I found here and there I never posted them because I don't know to whome all the badges belong.

However I will send you an e-mail with my theory and than you could see if you are able to link the beveled pins to one of the types I distinguish.

KR
Philippe