Zestörer "Schwerin-Berlin68" opinions please

[rhudspith]

Ok here we go, sticking my neck out

Personally I think these badges are ok and that the type B badge as Lorenzo stated is the earlier badge (perhaps we should call this the type A, chronologically speaking that is). This opinion is based on the earlier type of catch used and that I have not seen a zinc one as yet with this format of makers mark.

Martin you note that you have done a search and found many of both types, did you find both types in Zinc? if so I would be suprised and would have to re-evaluate the whole thing again.

The manufacturers name was made up of individual letters grouped together which explains the characteristic non alignment. If the rear of the die had to be changed for some reason then maybe the name had to be redone and it would be very unlikely that they could be put the letters in the exact same location.

What I would like to do now as a next step is to compare the above with the makers mark on a 1st E-boat and Coastal Artillery bearing in mind the date of instution of all three badges.

Finally the badge that started this all, I have no explanation for what looks like marks caused by heat applied to the attachmens on the back, I have never seen anything like this before and believe this is the prime cause of the doubt of its originallity. If this was not present then i'm sure the badge would have been given a quick

please fire away!

[Martin W]

Hi guys,Rob,all type B badges i found were tombak.Helmut Weitze has two of them on his site.There was definately a much higher percentage of the Type A badge in tombak and zinc.Regards,Martin.

[John R.]

Rob,

I feel both badges are OK, we now have two dies. I do not think what you are seeing is heat, I believe it is polishing. Note the area between the two lines of the mark. Dark. The finish on the entire back I think should look like this. Not sure how it ended up this way, but to me, it was polishing, not heat.

There seems to be no reason to think anyone would have heated the badge except to vault it perhaps, but I do not think this is the case.

John

[rhudspith]

Hi John,

I thought it might have been heat caused when the attachments were soldered on.

[John R.]

Rob,

What do you think about the entire reverse finish? It looks like the normal finish has been removed somehow I think, but I am not sure, and the black is just what is left of the original finish.

Again, I am not sure.

Frank, do you have any opinion of this badge and the appearance of the reverse.

John

[Lorenzo Brown]

Rob,

What do you think about the entire reverse finish? It looks like the normal finish has been removed somehow I think, but I am not sure, and the black is just what is left of the original finish....

John

I agree. This is the "chipping" effect I was referring to as can be seen on the reverse of the badge posted in post #14. Note that the light source is coming from the top. I think the entire reverse is that way giving the first impression of gold gilt, but it looks like the finish has chipped off. Most evident at the arrow points.

[rhudspith]

John,

I think you could be right The dark silver finish has been polished off / removed.

Lorenzo from looking at these badges I believe the order of the finishes applied to the tombak badges to be as follows:

1. Production of the bare metal badge.
2. Hand finishing of small cutouts and edges, attachment of hinge, main pin and catch etc.
3. Application of a silver plate finish to areas where the “dark oxidised silver” is to be applied.
4. Application of dark “silver oxidised finish”.
5. Application of fire gilding direct to the obverse brass wreath. (It is common to see this finish spilling over onto the reverse side of the wreath also).
6. Burnishing of highlights on fire gilding e.g. swastikas, wreath highlights.

With this in mind one does see from time to time this flaking effect of the silver plate finish, if you take a very sharp pin you call feel the edge of this.

[Norm F]

This thread is now included in the pinned thread on links to Schwerin badge discussions.

It's the first discussion back in 2006 on the two die types for the Schwerin Destroyer, with examples posted by Martin and at that time called Type A and Type B by Lorenzo, now called Type 1 and Type 2 (where Type 1 is Lorenzo's Type B -- the earlier one -- as mentioned by Rob).

It also includes Rob's description of the steps in finishing a Tombak badge.

It should also be noted that by the end of the thread, the consensus was that the badge posted at the beginning was in fact an original. The darkened finish seems to have been scoured somewhat as John described, causing an unusual look that led to the discussion.

All-in-all an important thread from the mid-period of WAF.

Best regards,
---Norm