submarine cloth badge

[jwburchell]

I was most interested and, perhaps a bit disheartened, to read the more recent thread started by "Gepruft" (Mike) on this subject, and to receive the link to this thread posted by Jody - mainly because I own such a badge. I am hoping - perhaps against all odds - that some more positive light might be shed on the existence of such a version of this badge.

Gordon Williamson writes in his great new book about U-Boat Collectibles, "A few original examples in hand-embroidered bullion wire are also known but rarely appear on the collector market."

For many years I have had in my collection a cloth U-Boot badge in gold bullion wire/thread.
Unfortunately, we are not able to see the weave pattern of the reverse. I will attach pictures here, for what it is worth, so that those of you who are more expert than I am can have a look and pass an opinion, please.

I am uncertain as to how long I have owned this badge (surely since the '70s, perhaps before) or where I acquired it (surely NOT from any of the disreputable dealers mentioned in a related thread!).

Better to know that it is not good, if indeed that must be the case, but I remain hopeful!

Thanks,
John

[jwburchell]

Reverse:

[all1knew]

https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item...d-kc-recipient

KRIEGSMARINE INSIGNIA U-81 CAPT. AND K/C RECIPIENT JOHANN-OTTO KRIEG
Kriegsmarine badge and insignia group from the commander of U-81, Knight's Cross recipient Kapit„nleutnant Johann-Otto Krieg (1919-1999). Included is Krieg's cap eagle, bullion chest eagle, wire BeVo uniform patch and metal national shield badge (pins on reverse broken). Originally purchased with Krieg's cased sextant, not available at this time. Provenance: TIME-LIFE Collection; The War Museum.

This is one of the reproductions from the 70's you think?

William Kramer

[glaser]

Fake cloth u-boot indeed! Some museum have no money, and get their items form the VET-families, all is considered genuine, of course ... Other museums do have a lot of money and they buy interestig groupings presented by the big ones, such as Hermann Historica of Weitze, both in Germany, all is considered as genuine, ...

[Norm F]

Weird collection. Why would a U-boat captain's grouping include a Coastal Artillery bullion breast eagle and a Heer pith helmet shield?

The same auction (Alexander Historical Auctions) has the nice Erich Topp grouping discussed in the other thread, but obviously they're not immune from fakes and it's always buyer beware.

Best regards,
---Norm

[BubbaZ]

A 'grouping' of coincidentally put together items IMO. The cloth u-boat is a fake. The story behind it is the ony value of this 'grouping' but it does not sound believable at all.
Cheers,
Hubert

[Bern]

Weird collection. Why would a U-boat captain's grouping include a Coastal Artillery bullion breast eagle and a Heer pith helmet shield?
---Norm

What features of the pith helmet shield determine that it's Heer and not Kriegsmarine?
Regards
Bern

[RKC]

Bern:

In regards to your question - "What features of the pith helmet shield determine that it's Heer and not Kriegsmarine"?

The Kriegsmarine "national colours" plate does not have any 'borders' on it wherein the Army version does have 'raised borders' around it.

Further information for you - The Kriegsmarine "national emblem" plate has a "Gold" eagle on a 'black' background without bordering....The Army version has a "Silver" or "Frosted-Silver" eagle on a 'black' background with 'bordering' around the shield.

Ron.

[Bern]

Thanks for the info Ron, but I'm more confused than ever now. I purchased a pith helmet in the late 70's and the national emblem plate has a gold eagle on a black background with a raised border. The weathered gold paint looks to be original. The tri colour plate also has a raised border and raised colour separation lines.
Bern

update: I did some on line research and apparently the pith is DAK with early shields and a red lining, not the green lining that Kriegsmarine piths have. My edjamakashun for the day.
Thanks again Ron for enlightening me.

[glaser]

A 'grouping' of coincidentally put together items IMO. The cloth u-boat is a fake. The story behind it is the ony value of this 'grouping' but it does not sound believable at all.
Cheers,
Hubert

Agree +1

[Ludwig]

The MA breast eagle makes sence, since Krieg, who was an ex U-Boat officer, later commanded Kleinkampfflottille 361 (one man torpedoes "Neger"), which beside the Navy blue, also wore the fieldgray uniforms of the MA.
Krieg won his Knight´s Cross by this unit.

[Norm F]

The MA breast eagle makes sense, since Krieg, who was an ex U-Boat officer, later commanded Kleinkampfflottille 361 (one man torpedoes "Neger"), which beside the Navy blue, also wore the fieldgray uniforms of the MA.
Krieg won his Knight´s Cross by this unit.

Hi Ludwig,

That's an interesting thought but could you show photos of K-band training officers wearing field grey? Photos of Krieg on the net all show him in the blue uniform, and I'd have thought the commander of a water based unit would wear the blue?

(Still doesn't explain the Heer pith helmet shield though. Unless they were just bits and bobs he picked up over the years after the war.)

Best regards,
---Norm

[Ludwig]

Walther Gerhold told me so, and also showed some pictures of officers wearing MA-uniforms. Not Krieg, but Koch. Same unit though.