Aircraft-Carrier badge prototype

[Jody]

Hi Jody cant believe that one. To my knowledge the germans got nowhere near producing a Carrier. Hitler had asked for plasns to be drawn up for a super Carrier to be designed but that was as far as it got.

Hello MRG,
Well believe it, it is there in black and white. How can you then deny it?

Regards,
Jody

[Jody]

Jody, you tricky bugger . It's not the 1st of April today . Here's another one of these "rare" pieces, published in D.G. 1992.

KR
Peter

Hi Peter,
I wish you hadn't shown that one, I was going to put an example of one of those up for sale on E-stand tomorrow. BTW, my example is the double marked example by Assmann it is very similar to their late-war para badge.

Regards,
Jody

[Peter J.]

Opps, sorry about that, didn't wanna spoil all the fun

KR
Peter

[mrg]

Hello MRG,
Well believe it, it is there in black and white. How can you then deny it?

Regards,
Jody

Hi Jody not everthing you read in black and white is true. In some early history books they stated Rommel died from his wounds, we now know that is not true. They also stated the Prince of Wales battleship got no hits on the Bismarck we also now Know that is not true. Each to their own belief i guess is what i am staying. All the best

[djpool]

Hi Jody cant believe that one. To my knowledge the germans got nowhere near producing a Carrier. Hitler had asked for plasns to be drawn up for a super Carrier to be designed but that was as far as it got.

Actually she was built.Heres the history.

In 1935, Germany's first aircraft carrier was ordered, and she was launched as the Graf Zeppelin in December 1938. She was to provide the commerce-raiding capital ships and cruisers with air cover, and would have increased their potential for destruction considerably. A second ship, provisionally to be called KMS Peter Strasser after World War I head of the naval airship squadrons, was ordered the following year, but she was canceled in 1940 to release shipyard capacity for more urgent work.
Unfortunately the Germans overreached themselves. They had no experience of all the problems which had beset the early American, British and Japanese carriers despite of intense research done by scientists and engineers in smaller scales using modified merchantmen. But worst of all, the head of the Luftwaffe, Hermann Göring refused to allow his "empire" to be encroached upon, having said anything that flied in Germany belonged to him, by permitting the formation of a separate naval air force; even though the short-landing Fi 156, the clipped-winged Junkers Ju 87C and Messerschmitt Me 109T were ready. The result was that the Navy had to try to persuade the Luftwaffe to part with a small number of aircraft, and the wrangling went on until there was no hope of getting a carrier to sea.
Although the Graf Zeppelin had some advanced features she displayed her designers' lack of experience. The heavy surface armament was of little use and accounted for too much weight; the anti-aircraft armament was heavy but badly sited, all on the starboard side; the radius of action was low for a fleet carrier intended to operate with the capital ships on the Atlantic shipping routes.
The wrangles over aircraft were matched by arguments over the equipment of the ship, and construction was suspended in 1940. Work started on a revised design in 1942 but was stopped in 1943. The catapults were fitted partly on the flight deck when construction was ceased but they were never completed and eventually destroyed by a special German crew on 25 April 1945 when the hull was scuttled at Stettin. The ship was reported to be listing to the starboard with heel about 0.5 degree after scuttling. After Germany's surrender the Russians raised it. Loaded with booty and with her hangars full of sections of U-boats and other bulky items, she left Stettin in tow for Leningrad in August 1947. Afterwards, she was renamed by the Russians as "PO-101" (this designation means F(loating) B(ase) No. 101). The ship was further towed to the naval polygon off Swinemünde to be anchored as a training target for Russian dive-bombers and torpedo vessels. The tests began on 16 August 1947, and the Soviets installed aerial bombs on the flight deck, in hangars and even inside the funnel; in addition to bombs dropped from aircraft and two 533-mm torpedoe-hits. In total the carrier withstood 24 hits scored by the Russians before finally sinking to the bottom: two 1000kg, two 500kg, three 250kg and five 100kg aerial bombs; four 180mm shells weighing 92kg; six bombs dropped by fleet dive-bombers; and two 533mm torpedoe-hits.

[mrg]

Hi Djpool very interesting thanks for that , i have got a few books on WW2 Carriers and not one lists the Graf Zepplin. mentions the design and start of the hull but nowhere near completed. I do know there are models out there that state this is how it would have looked but this is news to me. What book did you get this out of?

[Jody]

Hi Jody not everthing you read in black and white is true. In some early history books they stated Rommel died from his wounds, we now know that is not true. They also stated the Prince of Wales battleship got no hits on the Bismarck we also now Know that is not true. Each to their own belief i guess is what i am staying. All the best

Hello MRG,
I wanted to let you know that the aircraft-carrier badge I posted was a joke. It came out of a joke booklet from the 1970's.

Regards,
Jody

[mrg]

Hi Jody thanks for that you definately had me going i was looking at the award and thinking . Think I"ll go for a beer, was starting to think I am i on the right forum . All the best

[djpool]

Hi Djpool very interesting thanks for that , i have got a few books on WW2 Carriers and not one lists the Graf Zepplin. mentions the design and start of the hull but nowhere near completed. I do know there are models out there that state this is how it would have looked but this is news to me. What book did you get this out of?

I got it off the web.Heres the link.There are more pics etc.

http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/28...fzeppelin.html

Heres a drawing fom a site featuring the Revell model of the ship. Jim

[Simon O.]

Talking of the Graf Zeppelin, i believe one or two of her twin 15cm gun turrets survive to this day in Norway.

[mrg]

Thanks again Jim . Have often fancied doing that model. Maybe when i have more time. All the best

[Mike Coleman]

FYI for MRG

MRG,
If you are ever interested I have copies of the drawings of the ship. That includes all deck plans, profiles, cross sections, island including the original and the 1941 revision as well as hull changes. Therer are a couple of good references out there now as well as the Revell model (poorly done) and a 1/400 scale paper model from Poland (actually pretty nice). White Ensign Models in England may have the information and books and they do have a nice web site. John (a displaced Yank) is quite helpful.
Mike

P.S. The V-2 badge drawing is very similar to the "prototype" I saw in the 1960's. I wonder if these "made the rounds"?

[mrg]

Hi Mike thanks for the offer, but my modelling days are all but over, two kids and a wife put that Joy to death . Kept on down grading the size of my models in the hope that i could continue but in the end they downgrading to nothing . Yeah i know John and the white Ensign Crew have dealt with them for years, a very helpfull group. Thanks again