High Seas Fleet badge

[Mike Kenny]

Hi Dave,

I agree with John, a genuine zincer with a weak 5th window. If you want a better example from that dealer, mayeb look at new item 79934. The Schwerin HSF badge is not that uncommon in reasonably good condition, so you may well be able to find a better deal elsewhere.

Regards
Mike

[FW 200]

Keep researching this forum in order to see more examples of this badge in zinc with a weak/missing window. It is a lot of money to spend on an item that has any doubts as far as the buyer is concerned. Charlie

[chris clark]

just done a new catolog of my collection and thought id post my hsf with weak porthole

[ethreecee]

Is this one any good?

[ethreecee]

2

[ethreecee]

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[ethreecee]

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[ethreecee]

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[ethreecee]

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[Mike Kenny]

Is this one any good?

The quick answer is "no". The badge is a imo a repro. It lacks many characteristics of genuine Schwerin HSF badges. The maker's mark is incorrect - the two lines are different font sizes for a start (they should be the same font size).

Regards
Mike

[John R.]

I agree with Mike, this badge is a fake. In addition to what Mike has said, it lacks the die flaws Mike has identified in his study of this badge.

You can see this for yourself in the association area studies.

It is a high quality fake though, would fool most collectors I think.

John

[ethreecee]

Relunctantly I must agree. The "A" does not have the short leg, no tilted "o", and you are correct about the font sizes. I can only wonder why they made such mistakes on such a fine quality fake. Oh well, I screwed up again!

[John R.]

Because the intent was to deceive 98% of the collectors. Not the 2% who are aware, mainly thanks to the efforts of individual collectors like Australian Mike and other very experienced collectors on this forum, and a few other forums of the many out there, who have tried to advance the understanding of this area.

Some of those experienced collectors do not post as much these days, but thanks to the search feature and the fact that Seba has kept those old posts, there is irreplacable information that goes back years for all of us to study and learn--it really is irreplaceable too. Meanwhile, new collectors become experienced collectors themselves as the years go on so it is a never ending process.

If a collector takes full advantage of what is on this forum, meaning doing the research and homework, I see very little possiblility that collector is going to get burned before the purchase. If the urge to buy something overtakes the research side of the hobby, you are looking for trouble.

Most people going into shows or maybe looking at badges on dealer sites would not be able to tell the difference, they are not aware of the fakes and even if they are, badges like yours are close enough to fool them. The seller only needs a standard reference book with images of real badges and it would be close enough to your badge to make the sale.

Look, if 1000 of your variety are made, probably at 10 USD each in some sweat shop in Latvia, sold for 50 USD wholesale, does not take long to make a decent profit. The other possiblility is that they are not being made in a sweat shop, but instead carefully being produced in the UK or the US by skilled machinists who are not even aware of what is going on. Who knows, the result is the same.

I have always felt very indebted to Mike Tucker for telling me about this great forum.

Do not feel bad. We have all been there.

John

[ottomaton]

Since this thread seems to have turned into the "is my Schwerin HSF any good" thread, here is mine. I think I've matched it up with some of the late war examples, but expert opinions would be appreciated.

[ottomaton]

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