Need some E-Boat help!

[merdock]

had them tested and there real diamonds[the stones]

[merdock]

Hi,
mine are obviously not one of Ailsby's efforts

[W. C. Stump]

Originally posted by hawksy
Is Christopher Ailsby's a forum member, if he is he could explain why he did this? , i'am not daft or anything and i know what the score is, making money, but i thought that he is a well known collector.

I could be getting it all mixed up here.

lee.

Chris now goes under the name WAR LORD.

[W. C. Stump]

TO MERDOCK

These fake diamond badges are made of fine silver, use real diamonds, but 99% in collections today are as fake as your specimen and the one Sir Ailsby's jeweler made. In short, they are all ILLUSIONS", sucker bait, or just plain fake crap. Remember the old saying: "Every thing that glitters isn't gold". Fakes have been making these for years. I would advise anyone to get an iron clad province before investing in any high end diamond award. If you don't, you will become just another victim of the fake mongers.

[merdock]

Thanks Bill,
asumed they were fake they and other high end items came from a old collection the common items were original but the price i paid for the collection was ok i took them on as curiousaties and paid very little, over the next couple of weeks i'll show them to all.the collector had died.

Merdock

[Lorenzo Brown]

This is a good thread. What I find interesting, and very scary, is that the "E-boat badge with diamonds" shown by Bill is very, very close in detail to an Authentic badge. This badge is not the same fake badge that we have seen before.... the details of the badge shown by Bill are quite true to an authentic badge.

It seems to me that with a few minor alterations on the large swaztika, the dies to this badge could be easily altered to produce the more common version without diamonds.

Question: What specific details should collectors look for to tell the difference between this badge and an authentic E-boat , 1st pattern badge by Schwerin?

[W. C. Stump]

Originally posted by Lorenzo Brown
This is a good thread. What I find interesting, and very scary, is that the "E-boat badge with diamonds" shown by Bill is very, very close in detail to an Authentic badge. This badge is not the same fake badge that we have seen before.... the details of the badge shown by Bill are quite true to an authentic badge.

It seems to me that with a few minor alterations on the large swaztika, the dies to this badge could be easily altered to produce the more common version without diamonds.

Question: What specific details should collectors look for to tell the difference between this badge and an authentic E-boat , 1st pattern badge by Schwerin?

The fake 2nd type that I posted is at first glance close to one of the originals. Attached are scans of the 1st type that may or may not have been produced and the 2nd Type that was produced.

The dies used to produce these diamond badges were not altered standard dies.

A picture is worth a thousand words. The following scans will show the distinct differences between the standard and diamond badges.

[W. C. Stump]

E-BOAT 2ND TYPE WITH DIAMONDS

This is the 2nd Type E-Boat with Diamonds and what I think was the only version ever issued during the war.

Both scans are credited to Jorg Nimmergut and his book DEUTSCHE ORDEN UND EHRENZEICHEN BIS 1945, Page 2381 and 2382.

[W. C. Stump]

HISTORICAL FACTS

Let us look back a bit at the history of these rare E-Boat (correctly they are "S-Boot" Badges.) These badges were the "brain child" of Grand Admiral Erich Raeder. Just as he had with his U-boat Badge with Diamonds, the basic criteria for consideration of this award was that the recipient had to have been awarded the Oak Leaves to the Knight's Cross. The first recipients of this personal award was Korvettenkapitan Friedrich Kemnade. He was the commander of the first S-Boot Flottilla and received his award on May 27, 1943. The second recipient was Oberleutnant zur See Siegfried Wuppermann, a S-Boot commander. The next recipient was Geoge Christiansen, the succeeding commander of the first S-Boot Flottilla, and his award was bestowed on November 13, 1943. No presentation documents were issued the 8 recipients and they just received their award personally from Raeder.

Some historians say that the first three awards, or all bestowed in 1943, were of the first type design. They say when the design of the badge changed in late 1943 and the firm Schwerin, Berlin, produced both designs. Others disagree and say that all the badges bestowed were of the 2nd type. Kemnade stated, as did Petersen, said that they received the 2nd type badge with diamonds.

[Tony Farrell]

Oops! It looks like I've opened a can of worms here. So the 1st Type 'may or may not' have been produced with diamonds? I think the fact that they may have been is enough for some people. And as for having your very own private jeweller manufacturing such treasures? Balloon Observers' Badge with brilliants anyone?

Actually, I didn't ask if what I saw was up for sale, or just on display - and I was rather distracted by the three boxed Grand Cross Eagle Orders at the time.

[Paul Massucci]

FYI

Not the exotic fake, just a run of the mill fake 2nd type Schwerin Eboot badge. Complete with bubbling plating.

[Paul Massucci]

reverse