The Lüdenscheid coin dealer find

[Giel VW]

Hi guys

Been a while since there was a new discovery posted, so I thought of giving it a shot with this recent find.

I bought the whole stock through an other dealer but this stock apparently came from a coin dealer who kept these badges aside his whole life. They came from the Lüdenscheid area which is also quite visible when looking at the awards.

I know the majority posted here is Luftwaffe stuff and KM stuff, but the most interesting badge for me here was the GAB. This zink variant of the cupal GAB is one of our last unknown makers and this hoard find could put us more in a direction of identifying it.

The badges in the hoard were:
- B&NL marked Paratrooper badges
- B&NL marked RO/AG's
- B&NL marked AG's (much more than RO/AG's!!)
- "S&L" unmarked, crimped Coastal artillery badges (wrapped)
- "S&L" unmarked, soldered on set up Coastal artillery badges (wrapped)
- L/56 marked, F&BL Coastal Artillery badges (no wrapper, no gold finish)
- Unknown maker GAB's
- Cap eagles army
- Cap eagles LW
- Cap RAD badges (marked B&NL 44)
- L/53 marked, H&Co PAB mini's
- L/16 marked on cardboard PAB mini's
- Tons of other mini's

+ a small part of mother crosses, KVK medals which were bought by an other dealer before me.

+ hundreds of EK1-EK2-Hindenburg, all sort of combination mini's which I didn't buy.

So this sums up what was all there and which I think I was able to buy the most of it.

I think we can be sure of one thing, that the unknown maker GAB of which a few were found in this lot, are made by a Lüdenscheid maker.

Comparing and ruling out certain makers, this would lead to one big candidate for me. So here we go:

1) Since the B&NL maker is already identified in the GAB, IAB and PAB, I think we can rule out this option for sure. The typical set up and copper hinge, sunken catch are very typical here.
2) Deumer also had its very own history line in tombac, massive and hollow zink, so this GAB with different design and set up doesn't make sense.
3) Hymmen... same as Deumer
4) S&H. Already identified too in both tombac and zink.
5) S&L. Already identified in both tombac and zink
6) FLL same as above
7) Assmann same as above
8) GWL same as above

We have a few makers we don't know of any leads to combat awards at all.
Oberhoff & Cie
Ad. Baumeister
Paulmann & Crone
Wilh. Schroder & Co.

This leads us to one and only maker left for this GAB: F&BL

1) Compare the set up variants of this GAB with the L/56 marked IAB = identical.
2) Compare the set up variants of this GAB with the unmarked F&BL army flak = identical.
3) This light sprayed finish of this GAB (not the one in the thread now) can be found on the L/56 marked IAB and army flak.
4) GAB pin had no tool marks... same as the L/56 marked IAB and Army flak.

I have to get to bed now, more soon! Already looking forwards to your thoughts!

Giel

[Giel VW]

The possible F&BL GAB.

[Giel VW]

L/56 (used from Tom, sorry Tom I don't have this variant in my collection )

[Giel VW]

L/56 army flak

[Giel VW]

As said, I'm off to bed now. This will give loads of food for thoughts One will see that this IAB, GAB and Army flak has some different set ups which all match to one an other.

Question we can ask...

Can we connect the cupal GAB... and so IAB to this?

Would there be a PAB variant too? Scooped out flatback and 3rd pattern 7 wheeler come in to my mind here.

[Nick Carraway]

Amazing find! I like the connection but honestly that GAB is so killer

[Leroy]

Nice job, Giel.

[Sebastien T]

Awesome Giel well done

Seb

[Nicola.M]

Hi Giel,
Really good deduction and possible theory !
We also can find this type of Gab with another set-up, same hinge of the first Gab showed in the thread but with a rectangular catch plate base. The same set-up that we can find in the Unmarked F&BL IAB!

[Nicola.M]

F&BL Unmarked Iab with the same rectangular base

[Giel VW]

Hi Nicola

Thanks for adding the pictures to the thread. This was indeed what I ment

[Thomas Durante]

Hi Giel,

Excellent find!! I follow your thought process exactly, makes perfect sense. The reverse hardware on these GABs has always been "non-distinct" and didn't really point to a maker. Especially a Ludenscheid maker, because Ludenscheid hardware typically has its own signatures. However, what we all apparently failed to realize is that F&BL doesn't really have signature Ludenscheid hardware on it. Despite clearly being from Ludenscheid, F&BL pins and catches don't really have alot of the Ludenscheid characteristics we see on most other Ludenscheid-made badges (like GWL, Deumer, Assmann, etc.).

So now that you have pointed us in the right direction with this hoard find, it seems to me that F&BL is the obvious choice. As you say, F&BL IABs reverse hardware match these GABs EXACTLY. And as Nicolai mentions, there are two type of reverse hardware setups found on these GABs, and both are also found on F&BL IABs.

Also remember that one of these GABs has already been found marked L56!

Also notice the stippling on the leaf design of F&BL IABs, its very similar to what we see on these GABs.

Great find Giel!! I really think you cracked the code on this one my friend.

Tom

[Thomas Durante]

4) GAB pin had no tool marks... same as the L/56 marked IAB and Army flak.

To me, this is one of the most significant clues; the lack of tool mark on the pin. Almost all Ludenscheid makers pins have a distinct tool mark on the top, and generally something we look for on badges produced in this area. It can be considered somewhat of a signature of makers in Ludenscheid (most likely because they bought hardware from a local supplier).

So the fact that this GAB doesn't have a tool mark has driven us away from Ludenscheid in our search to find the maker. What we all failed to realize until now, is that F&BL doesn't have these tool marks either, despite being from Ludenscheid. That should have been a big clue to us, but no one picked up on it. The clues were in front of us, just didn't pick up on them.

Again, great find Giel!

Tom

[Thomas Durante]

And the obvious question, can we take this one step further and also connect Unkown #7 GABs also to F&BL?

Even from the begining, with Frank's GAB book, Unknown Maker #7 and #8 GABs were connected by a very similar obverse design and reverse hardware setup. There are a few variations with #7 GABs, and these variations can also be found on F&BL IABs! So there is more evidence that these were all made by one maker, and that is F&BL.

Firstly is the oval hinge on #7 GABs. This type of hinge has also been found on F&BL IABs.

Tom

[Thomas Durante]

Furthermore, a significant feature of #7 GABs is the left-opening catch. This too is often found on F&BL IABs. This is a relatively uncommon phenomenon to encountered on Third Reich badges, so finding it on two different badges is indeed a clue.

When you look at all this information, combined it is a pretty strong case for F&BL as being the maker of all these badges.

Tom