GAB maker found?

[Peter J.]

Tom, things have a tendency to be complicated when several pieces are on the board or perhaps I'm not clear enough. Jamie's GAB has no zinc bubbles for sure, but my comment was made in reference to the IAB you posted i.e. imperfections in relief.

This is still a learning process for me, so please excause some silly remarks. I'm very familiar with the process of tarnish when it comes to pieces made in silver i.g. an OL. No matter if silver- or gold colour is added on a genuine silver piece, the dark tarnish from oxidation will eventually force its way through the surface.

From looking at the database I understand the type discussed here is in zinc, although it doesnt feature a catch-plate, which is generally associated with zink. Consequently my question is: does zinc tarnish in a same way as a silver piece. After all, when distinguish a zinc piece, the darker spots are generally used as a confirmation of the metal, created by worn off silver paint.

The enclosed image illustrates yet another type of tarnish. The left PAB is made in Tombac and is heavily tarnished on the reverse. Still the remaing silver colour is rather intact, not speckled as the other PAB. Well, unless a 2nd dark coating was applied, at least we know Tombac will tarnish as well. Sorry for the rambling.

cheers
Peter

[Stepdale]

Hi Dale,

Thanks for the info on the location. I had assumed all Sudenten makers were part of the AGMuK conglomorate or loosely affiliated with it somehow. And that the makers stamped on the packet starts with Metall & Kunstoff, I assumed they were connected to AGMuk somehow. Do alot of firms start off with Metall & Kunstoff in their name but not part of AGMuK?

I talked to Jamie soon after his update and the packet and GAB were already on hold. I agree its a pretty high price, but if it leads us to a maker then money well spent IMO

Tom

Tom,
The AGMuK stands for Arbeitsgemeinschaft Mettal und Kunststoff, sometimes shortened to Metall u. Kunststoff Gablonz on Ostmedaille envelopes and MuK on some badges. It stands for Work Association (better translated as cooperative) of Metal and Plastics Gablonz, and was an organization with an as yet unknown number of badge, medal and insignia manufacturers from the Gablonz area. I don't know of any other work cooperatives in the Sudetenland during the TR era, but I only concentrate on Gablonz so there could have been many such coops working in many areas of manufacturing.

Their were other similar cooperatives throughout the TR era in many parts of Germany, such as the Arbeitsgemeinschaft der Graveur-, Gold-, und Silberschmiede-Innungen in Hanau, which produced Iron Crosses.

The Metall- und Kunstharzwerk G. m. b. H., Komotau/Sudetengau, is apparently an independent company and not part of an Arbeitsgemeinschaft, as it's title roughly translates to Metal and Resin Work, Incorporated in the city of Komatau, part of the Sudetengau.
Dale

[Thomas Durante]

Thanks Dale, great info

Here is another one that was posted by tiu-kwu. Interestingly enough, it had the same GAB int he packet as the one that started this thread. So we now have at least 2 examples of this type of GAB being found in packets by the same maker.

Tom

[Thomas Durante]

And the GAB that was found in that packet, same type of GAB that started this thread (Type 1.31).

Tom

[Stepdale]

Nice Tom and more possible evidence. I wish someone could post an example of an IAB that came with a packet like the one Andreas posted. Do you know of any IABs that share the same hardware as these GABs or is it a common type that could be found on numerous examples?
Dale

[stewy]

Nice Tom and more possible evidence. I wish someone could post an example of an IAB that came with a packet like the one Andreas posted. Do you know of any IABs that share the same hardware as these GABs or is it a common type that could be found on numerous examples?
Dale

I'm not sure if my mate Fischer has one. He may have one on file. If anyone has it'll be him Stewy

[fischer]

Hi Guys

An interesting packet set indeed, congrats to the new owner...
To date, these are the only M.u.K. addressed Assault Badge packets I have seen.
Unfortunately, I do not have one in my collection.

I too, speculated the address could tie this packet to the M.K. 1-7 or MK in Triangle makers at first.
But, I began to wonder if it's a generic packet as mentioned here or possibly a bag used by a retailer for wares purchased from an A.G.M.u.K. member(s).

In researching the Komotau area, I have only found large, industrial factories...not the smaller jewelry and glass fabricators that the Gablonz area is famous for.

This is a steel tube factory from the Komotau area.

Best Regards, fischer

[Thomas Durante]

Nice Tom and more possible evidence. I wish someone could post an example of an IAB that came with a packet like the one Andreas posted. Do you know of any IABs that share the same hardware as these GABs or is it a common type that could be found on numerous examples?
Dale

I agree Dale, would love to know what type of IAB was found in the packet Andreas shows. As I was reading through some of the other threads, member BassD also postulated that this packet maker was responsible for the "MK in Triangle" IABs, hopefully he will see this and post his thoughts.

As far as an IAB with possible connection to the GAB, there isn't really anything conclusive. For me, the closest IAB in both design, construction and reverse hardware setup would be this type, from Don's collection. Some people call this type "Wernstein", but the only connection I see would be the square-like catch and that is not conclusive because several makers used that type of catch. This IAB can also be found with round wire catch, like the GAB that started this thread. The block hinge is certainly a match to the GAB, but not conclusive ofcourse as others used it. However, the fact that both IAB and GAB uses little recesses for the hinge and catch could be link, although again nothing really conclusive there either. Unfortunately not a lot of pieces to the puzzle to go on to make a good connection to anything IMO.

Tom

[Graeme]

Hi guys,

An interesting item popped up on Jamie's update this afternoon, a GAB with marked packet to a Gablonz-based maker! We cannot see the full name of the maker unfortunately, but the description mentions a "Sudenten Gau".

Tom

Thanks for posting Tom. Always a shame when dealers do not show the important points when selling items, "such as the full name"

Tom, would you say that speckled reverse is a common feature on Gab's (or other badges for that matter)? I looked through Frank's book and couldn't find anything similar.

cheers
Peter

Hi Peter

I have a couple example pics of this particular maker which have similar age markings as the one posted, and I am pretty sure I have seen a few different badges such as silver wounds with this finish pattern. Original imo and I would not remove.

The maker of this GAB is:
Metall- und Kunstharzwerk G. m. b. H., Komotau/Sudetengau



The combination of this packet with the pictured GAB is "textbook" and was already discovered in 2011. Here is the IAB packet of this maker.

Hi Andreas, thanks for the excellent info and additional pics.

Your explanation regarding the word "Silber" may clear up a few of the queries in this thread, especially if these GABs have always been together with the packets.

regards
Graeme

[Graeme]

Dale - Great info
Fischer - Keep researching, it is all interesting.

I guess at this point we can say that we have a connection of some sort to the GAB and the maker, with at least two sets known. And we can also say that whether the company sold or made badges they also were probably involved in IABs as well.

Regarding the pics Tom posted, I forgot to mention that I like the look of the packet in quality and aged appearance, and the GAB looks orig imo too.

regards
Graeme

[Peter J.]

Graeme, thanks for getting back about the question I raised, which was never about the originality. My inquiry was part of a larger context related only to tarnish or loss of surface colour. According to my dictionary "tarnish" has several significations i.g. "discolouration", but also something similar to "worn" (furniture). Hence two scenarios: either added material to the surface (dirt, oxidation or zinc-pest) or the surface has been worn, creating cavities on the colour. I hope this will explain the purpose of my inquiry.

cheers
Peter