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    #1

    GAB maker found?

    Hi guys,

    An interesting item popped up on Jamie's update this afternoon, a GAB with marked packet to a Gablonz-based maker! We cannot see the full name of the maker unfortunately, but the description mentions a "Sudenten Gau".

    Interestingly enough, the GAB found in this packet is one of the Unknown Makers so that make sense, Type 1.31 in the GAB Database:

    http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=525679

    An interesting discovery for sure, but frankly I am a bit surprised to see this type of GAB being from the Gablonz area. Most strange for me, the reverse hardware setup is not what one would expect from a Gablonz-based maker. This area is reknowned for crimping the hardware in on their badges, so this GAB doesn't fit that pattern at all, with its soldered-on fittings.

    What do you guys think?

    Tom
    Attached Files
    If it doesn't have a hinge and catch, I'm not interested......well, maybe a little

    New Book - The German Close Combat Clasp of World War II
    [/SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Available Now - tmdurante@gmail.com
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    #2
    Packet looks dubious IMO. Why mark an ASA packet "silver"? There was only one grade & they would've known that. Although the font of the print does resemble a style seen on the docs. Strange. Stewy

    Comment

      #3
      Could be a common packet used on multiple awards.

      Regards,
      Chris G.

      Comment

        #4
        Tom,
        If real, I suppose the packet could have been for any of the assault badges and so to designate it as silver would imply that it was for an IAB or PAB. I have never seen a badge or medal packet marked to any Sudeten maker other than ones in Gablonz or its suburbs, so without a name it may be hard to determine if its even a known maker. There are several insignia makers listed in the RZM book in other parts of the Reichsgau Sudetenland, so it could be that one of those made badges as well.

        Overall, I'm a bit doubtful on the envelope and the badge being produced in the Sudetenland/Gablonz, but I have nothing definite to base that on.
        Dale

        Comment

          #5
          Tom, would you say that speckled reverse is a common feature on Gab's (or other badges for that matter)? I looked through Frank's book and couldn't find anything similar.

          cheers
          Peter

          Comment

            #6
            Would using a backlight help to see if this is a post war printed envelope ?

            Comment

              #7
              At first I see no construction problem with this packet.
              The text seems to be printed with old technique, as it should.
              If I remember correct there are some other packets with this handstyle font.
              Just looking at the picture it looks like the two words are printed not at the same time, but it could be the photo as well.

              Comment

                #8
                The maker of this GAB is:
                Metall- und Kunstharzwerk G. m. b. H., Komotau/Sudetengau



                The combination of this packet with the pictured GAB is "textbook" and was already discovered in 2011. Here is the IAB packet of this maker.
                Attached Files
                Best regards, Andreas

                ______
                The Wound Badge of 1939
                www.vwa1939.com
                The Iron Cross of 1939- out now!!! Place your orders at:
                www.ek1939.com

                Comment

                  #9
                  Originally posted by stewy View Post
                  Packet looks dubious IMO. Why mark an ASA packet "silver"? There was only one grade & they would've known that. Although the font of the print does resemble a style seen on the docs. Strange. Stewy
                  That's typical german ... Carl Wild for example used the wording "versilbert" on their award packets. The form of the printing is similiar to the printing style used by Wilhelm Deumer too.
                  Best regards, Andreas

                  ______
                  The Wound Badge of 1939
                  www.vwa1939.com
                  The Iron Cross of 1939- out now!!! Place your orders at:
                  www.ek1939.com

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Hi guys,

                    Thanks for all the replies and opinions, much appreciated.

                    Very good observation about the "silver" wording on the packet, I hadn't noticed that until you guys mentioned it. Certainly an oddity for a GAB since all GABs are silver grade. That is more reason for me to doubt this combination of particular GAB and packet belonging together. And the different style of font for "stumabzeichen" and "silber" could suggest that it was a commonly printed packet used for multiple awards, and then either stamped with "bronze" or "silber" for use with IABs and PABs, etc.

                    Andreas, thanks for the full maker identification. The original seller didn't want it to be made public but its nice to see another packet like it so we can have a more complete discussion

                    Being Gablonz-based maker, I would expect crimped hardware. Perhaps one of the MK IAB makers, or "MK in Triangle", etc.

                    Peter, regarding the speckled look to the finish, I wouldn't say its common but we have seen it before. I have no reason to doubt this GAB or its finish. I only have doubts about it coming together with this packet since the war.

                    Tom
                    Attached Files
                    If it doesn't have a hinge and catch, I'm not interested......well, maybe a little

                    New Book - The German Close Combat Clasp of World War II
                    [/SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
                    Available Now - tmdurante@gmail.com

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Just fyi, I posted the packet for opinions in the Packets forum, so lets see what those guys have to say about it:

                      http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...61#post7525661

                      Tom
                      If it doesn't have a hinge and catch, I'm not interested......well, maybe a little

                      New Book - The German Close Combat Clasp of World War II
                      [/SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
                      Available Now - tmdurante@gmail.com

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Tom, I see your point with those imperfections (often referred to as zinc-bubbles if I'm not mistaken), but Jamie's badge appears to have a similar finish to this PAB mini. That dark speckled surface appears to be loss of silver finish, exposing a darker nuance underneath.

                        cheers
                        Peter
                        Attached Files

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Hi Peter,

                          I don't think we are looking at zinc bubbling here on the GAB. Rather, it looks like surface tarnish, and I suspect it would clean up if it were dipped in Tarn-X. I don't see any zink bubbling at all, it looks 100% mint condition (with the exception of the tarnish).

                          S&L Oakleaves have similar speckled appearance if I am not mistaken, one of the things Dietrich likes to see on period examples I think he told me once.

                          Tom
                          If it doesn't have a hinge and catch, I'm not interested......well, maybe a little

                          New Book - The German Close Combat Clasp of World War II
                          [/SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
                          Available Now - tmdurante@gmail.com

                          Comment

                            #14
                            Hi Tom,
                            The firm was located in Komotau (Chomutov in Czech), which is quite a distance from Gablonz, so it would not necessarily have used Gablonz type hardware. I couldn't find it listed in the RZM book, but it is listed as a munition maker with the maker code of "ofh." Other than that, I couldn't find any information showing that it produced anything other than munitions, but that doesn't prove that it didn't make other metal items. It would be nice if the infantry packet posted had a badge to go with it to see if it had hardware matching the GAB.

                            I see the badge and packet is now on hold - quite a high price but not so bad I suppose if it works out to identify the maker of this GAB.
                            Dale
                            Last edited by Stepdale; 09-01-2016, 08:55 AM.

                            Comment

                              #15
                              Hi Dale,

                              Thanks for the info on the location. I had assumed all Sudenten makers were part of the AGMuK conglomorate or loosely affiliated with it somehow. And that the makers stamped on the packet starts with Metall & Kunstoff, I assumed they were connected to AGMuk somehow. Do alot of firms start off with Metall & Kunstoff in their name but not part of AGMuK?

                              I talked to Jamie soon after his update and the packet and GAB were already on hold. I agree its a pretty high price, but if it leads us to a maker then money well spent IMO

                              Tom
                              If it doesn't have a hinge and catch, I'm not interested......well, maybe a little

                              New Book - The German Close Combat Clasp of World War II
                              [/SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
                              Available Now - tmdurante@gmail.com

                              Comment

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