One more Wurster PAB variant

[Philippe DB]

Hi Guys,

In fact we already knew that the small "w" was an earlier maker mark of Karl Wurster KG, Markneukirchen but it's always nice to get confirmation directly from an award.

Today I was able to pic up this badge. The seller already send me pics of it and after first looking at them I was confident that I found another small "w" buntmetall PAB like the one skip recently posted in this thread.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ad.php?t=80833

Only problem was where did the zinc bubling on a buntmetall award come from.

Once I held it the riddle was quickly resolved, it's not a buntmetall but a zinc small "w" marked PAB. Taken in to account how rare these are it's safe to assume that Wurster must have changed his mm fairly quick after switching from buntmetall to zinc production.

So together with Tom's buntmetall PAB with deviating grass pattern we discovered 2 new Wurster variants in one day. The only thing we're still missing now is the small "w" zinc PAB in Bronze. So Skipy your family wasn't complete yet. Happy hunting

KR
Philippe

[Philippe DB]

reverse

[Greg]

Philippe,

Very nice! Another one where the small w is lower, below the "break" of the wing and wreath. The Wurster family continues to grow!

Best,
Greg

[Don D.]

Nice find Philippe.
Don

[VonLuger]

Super find Philippe, Zink! is this the first small 'w' zink seen here? and silver to boot...another new find!!-shows how this hobby is never ending, add this to the books...

[keifer kahn]

Philippe,

I have a new camera and hopefully once i have worked out how to take good close images,i will be able to send you photos of a bronze wurster pab in zink.
I did send frank some photos taken from my scanner months ago but they were dismall.
This bronze zinker has the wrap around hinge,like the type seen on late style wurster GABs.It also has the Tighter W marking,(not as spread out),also seen on later wurster GaBs.The W is also right next to the hinge,as in the GAB,s as well.Not on the edge of the wing,like yours and many other pabs.The catch is the standard wurster type,also directly soldered to the badge,without a visible catchplate.It weighs approx 32 gms.

Ill send them to you when im satisfied,they are good enough.

[Philippe DB]

Hi Keifer,


Thanks for this great info although I have to admit that it only makes things more complicated. How did that small "W" get on a late war Wurster with wrap arround type hinge

If I'm not mistaken these late Wurster also come without mm. So maybe at some stage they decided that this was unacceptable and added the small "w" GAB type back one. Realy wouldn't know how to explain this otherwise.

@Jeff, as far as I know of this is the first one ever posted on the WAF. I have another one in my files but never was sure what it was made of, I always assumed it was a zilver buntmetall variant but now I know better

KR
Philippe

[Frank Heukemes]

Dear Keifer & Philippe,

I checked my database and did not find Keifer´s badge there. But I found it finally still in my email folder. These are the pics below. I see I answered you back then, but probably missed the point that this was the NARROW W on the badge.

However Philippe, a narrow W on a later zinc PAB from Wurster is NOT unusual, why should it be? If one follows the evolution of the Wurster GABs, the narrow W mark can be found on examples from earliest Tombak over mid war silver plated zinc to latest war Brennlack zinc badges. Always the small, NARROW W mark.

Cheers,

Frank

[Frank Heukemes]

rev

[Frank Heukemes]

mark

[Frank Heukemes]

These were the pics I received, not much to see there, so we will have to wait for better pics from Keifer.

[Philippe DB]

However Philippe, a narrow W on a later zinc PAB from Wurster is NOT unusual, why should it be?

Dear Frank,

It might well be in line with the mm's we know Wurster used but it is HIGHLY UNUSUAL, to find both the broad and small "w" on the PAB or do you believe that 3 dies with 3 different mm were used at the same time. Not very likely IMO because than we would have the find a proportional amount of each mm. So I can understand why the broad "w" disappeard but, at least for me, it's not easy to explain how an when the small "w" got back on.

KR
Philippe

[Frank Heukemes]

Dear Philippe,

Yes, I believe in different dies but not neccesarily at the same time. I think (when looking at PABs) wide small W was first, then KWM, then small narrow W (maybe parallel with KWM). The slighgtly different obverse designs also point to different dies. Maybe reworked dies, but why should a badge just deteriorate in the grass area repeatedly and not on the rest of the die? Also, a "die fault2 would not have been considered as a bad thing in the grass area, which is messy and deliberately "chaotic" anyway.

I just wanted to point out that the narrow small W is not considered to be JUST an early Wurster mark. On the GAB, it is on ALL of the evolutions from Tombak to Brennlack zinc. That was my point.

[Philippe DB]

Dear Frank,


There I agree completely with you. The narrow "w" was also early but still in use on the later zinkers and that's why I assumed that it was still available for use on the PAB after for whatever reason they stopped using the KWM logo. If it didn't replace that logo but was the result of a second die being used I would expect to see more arround especialy taken in to account the Wurster was one of the bigger PAB manufacturers.

Good point though in relation to the grass area, doesn't make much sense to only re-work that area all the time.

KR
Philippe

[keifer kahn]

Thanks Frank for posting those pics.

Im going to get a photographer friend to do the pics for me.This digital camera i have now is even worse for detailed shots than the original scanner i used.
I had about 30 goes,in all sorts of light and angles..But they were all poor.

Philippe,
At least now you have some photo evidence for your databank.The badge does have a bit more bronze finish left than is apparent in the photo,s.

I promise the next set will be 100% better.

regards keifer