Army flak artillery badge - need feedback

[Thomas Durante]

The only thing that is a bit off is the very small round catch plate. In 95% of the cases this is a rectangular one.

More than the plate Giel, the catch itself is also different. Here is the "typical" Rettenmaier catch. I don't recall ever seeing a round "C" shape like on the badge that started this thread, and that was my main reason for questioning it. So not only is the catchplate different, but also the actual shape of the catch which I found odd.

The hinge also seems wider than we typically see on Rettenmaiers, so putting that together with the different catch and catchplate raised a red flag to me.

Ultimately I think it is probably fine, good detail with the typical Rettenamaier hand finishing but just weird hardware IMO.

Tom

[Thomas Durante]

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[Norm F]

Hi Guys,

Here are a couple of flatback Minesweepers with atypical finish and round catch plates, different from the usual.

If we saw atypical S&L or Souval configurations we would immediately consider the possibility of post-war assembly/finish. Why should Rettenmaier, who continued on in business to the present day, be any different in that respect? No doubt they had lots of leftovers and rejects at the war end, for themselves or some third party to do with want they want...?

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

This doesn't look like a "fine original" to me so much as a defective planchet pulled out for a second go at marketability?

Best regards,
---Norm

[Antonio Scapini]

The flaw was at 99,9% generated during the trimming process after the badge was molded, I would say it was not part of the planchet.

[Thomas Durante]

If we saw atypical S&L or Souval configurations we would immediately consider the possibility of post-war assembly/finish. Why should Rettenmaier, who continued on in business to the present day, be any different in that respect?

Hi Norm,

I think the difference here is that S&L and Souval are known 100% to have continued production of 3rd Reich awards after the war. There is no doubt about this, but did Rettenmaier too? We know they survived the war and still operate today, but did they continue to make swastika-bearing awards after May 1945? I think that is the difference and I don't think it has ever been confirmed that Rettenmaier did this like Souval and S&L.

My problem is not really with the catchplate, but with the catch itself and the shape. That catch seems cruder and therefore could certainly point to a postwar-put together using whatever was around.

Tom

[Norm F]

The flaw was at 99,9% generated during the trimming process after the badge was molded, I would say it was not part of the planchet.

Hi Antonio,

My point was it was damage during production and not from wear, i.e. a badge likely for reject.

We know they survived the war and still operate today, but did they continue to make swastika-bearing awards after May 1945? I think that is the difference and I don't think it has ever been confirmed that Rettenmaier did this like Souval and S&L.

My problem is not really with the catchplate, but with the catch itself and the shape. That catch seems cruder and therefore could certainly point to a postwar-put together using whatever was around.

Hi Tom,

I wasn't talking about producing new swastika-bearing awards - like you say, so far we have no smoking gun for that. As I stated in my post, I was talking about post-war assembly/finish of leftover stocks to supply demand, by either Rettenmaier or a third party with their leftovers. Whenever we see crude and atypical construction this must be considered, whether it's S&L, Souval or others like F&BL or Rettenmaier. The post-war assembly of leftovers and rejects was the first and easiest way to make a buck, long before one had to be more adventurous and source out or produce new components.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Andreas Klein]

I think the difference here is that S&L and Souval are known 100% to have continued production of 3rd Reich awards after the war. There is no doubt about this, but did Rettenmaier too?

I think we can't exclude any maker who survived the war and why not Rettenmaier too? It's proven that the flak badges where sold postwar too:

[Norm F]

Just for reference, the photo shown by Andreas is from the May, 1953 issue of the German magazine REVUE (which measured 27 x 36 cm). It is shown in entirety (thanks to Uwe) and in parts along with full translations scattered throughout this thread:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...17#post6491317

One can quibble about accuracy of the wording of the article but the interesting quote is:
"According to a law of the Allies, manufacturing and wearing German war medals are still prohibited. But some manufacturers have started producing Orders again."
The interesting terminology here was "some manufacturers" (einige Fabrikanten), not "one manufacturer". Of course, no distinction is made between post-war assembly of leftovers vs. totally new production.

Best regards,
---Norm