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**Mike Kenny** · 02-03-2005, 10:17 PM

Hi Harvey,

There's lots of interesting reading in the mags, covering all nations. There are definitely some interesting German articles. Daggers, badges, uniforms, armour, etc are covered. Given that they are long out of print, they'd be worth picking up at that price - only 25 were produced in English. Most fake info is already available on the forum though.

If you don't read French, just make sure you're getting the ENGLISH version!

Regards
Mike K

**Tom Yanacek** · 02-04-2005, 12:13 AM

These supposed Herman Aurich Panzer Badges with the ball hinge and flat back are pieces-o-crap, nothing more, nothing less. None of them are real. I know of a fake-pusher from Meadville, Pa. that sold these badges by the dozens. He always seemed to have an inexhaustible supply of these. As long as I have been collecting, I never saw one of these until about the mid 90's when suddenly they were everywhere. There could not have been a more obvious flood of fakes.

Best regards! Tom

**Philippe DB** · 02-04-2005, 12:34 AM

Originally posted by Wyatt1939

Hermann Aurich did indeed produce BALL HINGE badges this was proved correct by Jamie Cross about a year ago when a whole catche was found in an abandoned warehouse in berlin. It's posted in one of last years or the year befores "military forum". Also ground dug items exist of this variation exist. This whole thing about the ball hinge repros was started repros coming out of Hungary appeared on the market so everyone believes now every one is a fake. THIS IS NOT CORRECT DO YOUR HOMEWORK.

Hi Wyatt,

First of all let me welcome you to the forum. I'm confident that you found the right place if you're seriously interested in learning about III Reich awards.

However one word of advice, before telling people to do their homework be carefull you have don yours and are able to come up with hard proof for statements like the above.

Would you be so kind to tell us a little about your PAB collection and the research you yourself put in to it. I don't supose you just read an article by J. Cross end use that knowledge to enlighten us.

For your information J. Cross is also the dealer who found a boxed filled with AWS 1942 PAB's (I'm sure your familiar with this PAB) on a Russian battlefield and since than does his best to convince the collectors community that the "cutter AWS's" are absolutly genuine.

At this moment he has 9 PAB's for sale two of them are known fakes. Since you did your homework I supose you have no trouble in picking them out for us.

KR
Philippe

**skip** · 02-04-2005, 02:00 AM

Really Wyatt,

you are the one who needs to look before he leaps.

Indeed, a large amount of Aurich PABs were discovered. However not directly in Berlin. They were on the grounds of the Potsdam main railway station and were discovered while digging in new rails after the fall of The Wall.
They were in a pretty bad state and clumped togeather in large balls of corroded badges. The ones on the outside were totally "kaputt"while the ones in the middle were in a reasonable condition for badges that had been 50 years underground. They are easy ones to spot in that they are frosty white but with little spots of corrosion and lots of bubbling. Usually the pins are totally rusty to. They crop up from time to time on auction sites and at dealers. Not ONE of these badges had a ball hinge. They were all with the standard, well known Aurich crimp hinge.

How do I know this?
I watched when the railway guys came onto the market and broke open one of these balls of corroded badges. In fact I even bought one, thats long gone now though.

I would suggest, and its only my opinion, that Mr Cross either heard about this find and decided to use it for his own means or he was taken in by somebody else telling him the story.

Skip

**Philippe DB** · 02-04-2005, 02:49 AM

Originally posted by skip

Really Wyatt,

I would suggest, and its only my opinion, that Mr Cross either heard about this find and decided to use it for his own means or he was taken in by somebody else telling him the story.

Skip

Skipy I would even strongly doubt that posibility. These ball hinge Aurich's can't rot simply because they are not made out of zinc, at least not the type of zinc used on originals. The only way you would be able to damage these badges is by pouring acid on to them. A couple of years in the ground will do them no harm, maybe they would look a little dirty but if you use enough pressure while sandblasting them they would look like new again

KR
Philippe

**Dave Wyatt** · 02-05-2005, 05:26 PM

Prove them wrong to me. I dont want to hear about flat back either. Prove to me that Hermann Aurich with a firm of maybe 20-30 employees didnt have different means of attaching a hinge like many other companies as the war progressed. Just like Junker hinges changing variation from pilots badges to mid war Army paras. My panzer assaults are real, I purchased them from a vet whose sister can remember recieving them in a package during the war along with other items. It has been a known fact many believe this web site is full of uninfomed individuals making the real things into fakes and the fakes real because of a lack of hard evidence. Noone ever adressed the fact I also said they exist examples of ground dug HA which have the ball hinge in which no chemical can age a badge like the acids from a decomposing body

**Don D.** · 02-05-2005, 05:54 PM

Wyatt, you're the new guy here. Show us what you've got. **** or get off the pot. If you think this site is screwed up why are you here? As far as I've seen you've addressed no facts what so ever, just a third hand account from perhaps Jamie Cross.
Don

**Chet Sowersby** · 02-05-2005, 06:05 PM

Wyatt,
As Philippe and Don have said, show us what you have got. (i.e. what you think is a orginal pre-45 Hermann Aurich with a ball hinge). Thus far, you have shown nothing.

Chet

**N.Wyatt** · 02-05-2005, 06:44 PM

wyatt,
I agree with you . I also have an PAB Ball hinge Aurich in my collection and it is real as well. So you are not the only one out there

**Don D.** · 02-05-2005, 06:47 PM

Maybe they are made in Maryland.
Don

**Chet Sowersby** · 02-05-2005, 06:50 PM

Kreiger,
Good for you. However, talk is cheap. Please show us your Hermann Aurich PAB ball hinge as Wyatt has yet to post his.

Chet

**N.Wyatt** · 02-05-2005, 07:28 PM

i would post pictures but i cant yet...when i can i will
by the way, why are you guys getting all defensive over this...if they are really then maybe the badges that you have thet you think were fake arnt really fake

**Frank Heukemes** · 02-05-2005, 07:29 PM

That´s good news!!! I know where many mint ones are!!! Care for one?

**Peter Wiking** · 02-05-2005, 07:43 PM

kreiger123
I have sent you a PM with my email. I can post the photos for you.

Cheers.
Peter

**Don D.** · 02-05-2005, 07:45 PM

You can send your pics to me at ddoer96635@adelphia.net

We are not getting defensive. We have had these types of discussions before. It goes like this: New guy shows up, defies collective wisdom by stating some outlandish claim, then cites some dealer as the sole authority.
Seen it several times a month, including my first posts here.

Send me your pics and I will post them here for you and then you can discuss them.
Don

Originally posted by kreiger123

i would post pictures but i cant yet...when i can i will
by the way, why are you guys getting all defensive over this...if they are really then maybe the badges that you have thet you think were fake arnt really fake

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