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**mott5ranch** · 08-21-2002, 05:57 PM

Hello Joseph,
Great question. I've seen some guys post period badges that have been repaired as far as the pin and catch are concerned. I've also read other posts here where some have said that makers make have used other known hinge and catches from other makers. So from time to time catches and pins may vary. The jury is still out as to how many dies a maker may have had. Sometimes we read first pattern and second pattern. Could these have been concurrent patterns? Some things we will never know.
However as far as hinge and catches are concerned I personally think it was possible for pieces to vary from time to time exactly like US badges do. Just my humble opinion.

**keifer kahn** · 08-21-2002, 07:46 PM

Some collectors are too quick to dismiss items as repros based on the fact that they havent seen it.Its the old "if i havent seen it in 20 years of collecting,then its not original".This pertains to nearly all areas of collecting.An items authenticity is not decided on simply one point.If a repro has one bad point,then you are sure to find another.
As for collecting experience,what do we use to grade experience?
Does a collector who started collecting 20 years ago but reigiously only buys say,3 items a year have more experience than someone who has collected for 8 years and buys 50 items a year.Hands on with items is what counts!Not the time spent since you started the hobby.
I knew a collector who had an ss 8 year medal,and he stated that it was original and he knew this becauseof his "20 years experience of collecting".he was not using this statement to try and sell because this was a medal he showed me as part of his collection.The medal after i examined it was found to be repro,a good one but a repro.The medal was under dimensions,and cast,in fact the top ring was part of the casting(but was bevilled).
There were other points as well,but in the end his twenty years didnt count when it came to this item.
Collectors opinions are like black lights,use them as a guide but dont believe everything you hear or read.
regards keifer

**macca** · 08-22-2002, 05:25 PM

pin assembliesI

IMO all original pin assy work Most repro pin assy are very loose and will not attatch the badge sucurly to the tunic.It takes some preshure to realese the pin from the C hook.Fakes are usually FLOPPY

**Adrian** · 08-22-2002, 06:13 PM

Hello macca,

If I read correctly, you are saying that original pin assemblies are firm and that repro assemblies are loose??
If so, then I have to disagree, I own some original badges with loose pins and some repro badges with tight pins so IMO this theory is not a good guide to authenticating badges.

Best Regards,
Adrian.

**keifer kahn** · 08-23-2002, 12:06 AM

I agree with adrian,tightness of a pin has nothing to do with originality.I have 4 original badges ,tank battle in silver(frank and reif),Inf assault in silver(M.K.3),wound badge in silver(steinhauer and luck),wound badge in black(overhoff and cie),I also have two repro badges,bronze tank badge marked A.S(well known fake),and a repro CCC marked GWL.The pins on the two fakes are just as tight and work just as well as any of the original pins.They just dont conform to period design nor materials.But as for funtion they are just the same.Looseness of a pin is determined usually by degree of workmanship when being manufactured and assembled.Also by the fitting of parts.Looseness of a pin can aslo be determined by how many times a badge has been attached and removed by the owner.
Usually repro pins and hinge arent up to the standards of period pieces but in the case of two fakes i have ,they are!
regards keifer

**Mark S.** · 08-23-2002, 12:57 AM

I agree with the others that loose/tight pin assemblies are irrevelant in regards to authenticity. I am not sure if this was an off the cuff statement, but it surely wasnt borne from research.

Judging authenticity by the attached hardware, though valid in rather broad terms, isnt by itself a determining factor. Such instances would have to be taken on a case by case basis, and only after all other determing factors have been taken into account, then judge the hardware, if different.

Of course there are many cases where the lack of what is agreed as a "factory" hinge setup would be immediate in drawing suspicion. For instance, and other type hinge on a Herman Aurich Panzer, Heer Flak, or Infantry Assault badge would be immediately deemed as fake. If it doesnt have that over engineered folded over and crimped in hinge, I dont want anything to do with it. Same with Schwerin badges. Block hinge or forget it.

With the exception of a few badges, already darkly shrouded in controversy anyway, such as the Anti-Partisan badge, such argumentive details are just more fuel for the fire. It may not be the case that it is in fact fake, but not the norm, which makes it less than 100% textbook. This factor in itself is reason enough for many collectors to pass on it.

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