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**casey76** · 08-10-2014, 05:32 AM

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**casey76** · 08-10-2014, 05:33 AM

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**schwelch** · 08-10-2014, 05:53 AM

Hi,

the one with the nice finish is attributed to Paul Meybauer, the other one is in B.H: Mayer / Otto Schickle design.

BR
Sven

**Thomas Durante** · 08-11-2014, 05:09 AM

Hi Carsten,

Sven is right ofcourse, the nicely silvered example is made by Meybauer the other by Schickle.

Tom

**Andreas Klein** · 08-12-2014, 03:22 AM

I'm quite sure that the hollow one wasn't made by Schickle because this firm was allready out of business when Zink was introduced to combat badges production. Due to the fact that Schickle's tool were sold no one can say you for sure who made this nice IAB.

The same goes for the massove one ... no one can say you for sure who made this nice thing.

**DTVPKING** · 08-12-2014, 05:04 AM

Originally posted by Andreas Klein View Post

I'm quite sure that the hollow one wasn't made by Schickle because this firm was allready out of business when Zink was introduced to combat badges production. Due to the fact that Schickle's tool were sold no one can say you for sure who made this nice IAB.

The same goes for the massove one ... no one can say you for sure who made this nice thing.

Are you sure? Here is my Schickle/Mayer in zinc.

**Hans N** · 08-12-2014, 05:14 AM

Originally posted by Andreas Klein View Post

I'm quite sure that the hollow one wasn't made by Schickle because this firm was allready out of business when Zink was introduced to combat badges production. Due to the fact that Schickle's tool were sold no one can say you for sure who made this nice IAB.

And yet there are proof that zinc was indeed used by Schickle before the firm went out of business in terms of EK´s and WB´s

**Andreas Klein** · 08-12-2014, 02:25 PM

Hi Hans,

there is a difference between the use of a non iron core in the iron cross production - which was illegal - and so far i have not seen a L/15 marked ww2 wound badge in zink ... maybe an unmarked ww1 wound badge which was attributed to Schickle by the hardware/overall design.

**Thomas Durante** · 08-12-2014, 04:06 PM

Originally posted by Hans N View Post

And yet there are proof that zinc was indeed used by Schickle before the firm went out of business in terms of EK´s and WB´s

Excellent point Hans and I can only agree with you. Despite its reputation, Zinc was an excellent metal for use by badge manufacturers due to its malleability at low temperatures and its abundance so it was a natural choice even early on. Schickle for sure used it in their production as you rightly say as evidenced by their maker-marked EKs. Even Juncker used zinc for their cores on their earliest Knights Crosses, so no question zinc was being used as early as 1939 by manufacturers.

Tom

**PKAliebhaber** · 08-12-2014, 04:20 PM

Andreas is right here and Tom 100 % wrong, because its a big difference betwen to use the zinc for combat badges like it was ORDER and to do it illigal before f.e. for a iron cross!!!

So i also believe the Mayer Design Badge IAB in Zinc hollow cant be made by Schickel!!! Think about how often we see them. Its not logical to think all this were produced illigal by Schickel before they banned and before it was decided to switch to Zinc for combat badges

**PKAliebhaber** · 08-12-2014, 04:21 PM

Originally posted by Hans N View Post

And yet there are proof that zinc was indeed used by Schickle before the firm went out of business in terms of EK´s and WB´s

Its a complete other way! Sorry

**Thomas Durante** · 08-12-2014, 04:45 PM

Don't be sorry PKA, you are entitled to your opinion. Welcome back by the way.

Please clarify why zinc used in RK and EK1 production since 1939 was OK and acceptable, but not for use in badge production. If anything, it seems to me that it was more important to get the metals right on such a high and prestigious award like the Knights Cross compared with a lowly IAB.

We can continue to discuss this point, but there is no doubt Schickle was using zinc for awards production before they were banned in mid 1941.

Tom

**Andreas Klein** · 08-12-2014, 05:41 PM

Sorry Tom your statement is not correct.... a non iron core for the iron cross wasn't ok and wasn't accepted by the PKZ. This was the illegal behaviour of certain makers and doesn't say anything about the controlled mass production. Ask Dietrich who can confirm this...

I already showed the document showing when zink was accepted in combat badge production as replacement for war important resources - and it was after schickle was out.

**Thomas Durante** · 08-12-2014, 06:46 PM

There is no doubt that zinc was being used early on by manufacturers, so it was OK and acceptable on a certain level. You have to accept this, unless you are of the opinion that the Schickle EKs and early Juncker RKs are fakes. PK notifications can be found all the way into mid-1943!! reminding makers that iron must be used in EK production, so there is no doubt that not all makers followed the rules despite clear regulations. I have shown a document from 1944 that says all CCCs in silver must be made from Nickel Silver, yet not a single shred of evidence suggests this directive was ever followed by any manufacturer.

Knights Cross and EK production seems to have been more regulated than common badge production based on the evidence I have seen so far (the materials were restricted, they had to be marked, RKs were not allowed to be privately sold, etc.). So if certain manufacturers disregarded, or otherwise ignored regulations on these highly-regulated orders like EKs and RKs, then I have no problem believing that they also took liberties with lesser-restricted awards such as a common IAB or PAB.

Keep in mind that all the way to the end of the war, iron and nickel-silver and real silver was always mandated to be used for RKs and EKs, even thru all the wartime rationing. Whereas zinc was formally allowed to be used for common combat badges on a mass level as early as 1942, so that says a lot about the importance of quality between the two categories of awards.

Schickle's use of zinc before it became widely accepted by the PK could very well be the reason their license was taken away in the first place.

Tom

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2 x IAB what maker?

2 x IAB what maker?

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