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    #31
    Hi,

    thanks for more details.

    Rob I just performed the aceton test. I put it on the cotton stick ( for ear cleaning)
    and rubbed the edge of the badge, slowly and easily at the begining. No change of color in the area was seen also no color traces remained on the white cotton stick. Then I rubbed pretty hard also on the area that you requested and also on some other parts of the badge but with the same result. Absolutely no trace of any color on the stick, no color removing from the badge.

    As seen on Robs example we can clearly see that Juncker produced completely coated badges including the hardware.

    So are there any other opinions?
    What about other experts?

    Any ideas welcome.

    Best regards
    Pavel

    Comment

      #32
      I have seen one-color broad pin hinge assemblies on other badges, but the needle pin types shown on the APB that started the thread have the multi-tone hinge assembly, based on what I've seen.

      Can anyone post a picture of a gold APB with a gold (thin) pin and hinge?

      s/f Robert

      Comment

        #33
        Here is a Juncker PAB with thin round needle - completely gold coated......
        Attached Files

        Comment

          #34
          Right, thanks for posting. I'm asking if anyone has an APB with an all gold needle pin assembly they can post, or whether they are all two-tone like the example I posted.

          regards, Robert

          Comment

            #35
            Hi Pavel

            Jugdeing the finnish on a badge is very difficult as wear and how it was preserved will influence on the hue of the finnish. Also the camera settings and photoshopping and the adjustment of the pc-screen can influence the look. When I jugde the finish from what I see on my screen yours looks paler, not so deep gold as I would expect. It has a greenish gold hue to it. Can you please compare your badge finnish with the badge I have attached?

            Acetone test isn't conclusive as some modern goldpaints can be baked in a oven and become acetone resistant.

            My main issue with your badge is the non black pin. The Juncker PAB 75 you post IMO dosen't have a gold pin as it looks like here. Have a look in De Bocks vol.2 page 667+671 where the same badge is pictured, where the pin cylinder looks more black than gold and the pin itself worn of finnish down to the tombak. My vote would be on De Bocks book as I know he used a very advanced printing technique.

            Looking through the De Bock book, all numbered Juncker PAB's has blackend pins. Looking through Toms CCC book all Juncker CCC's has pins colored like the grade of the badge. Looking through my extensive files on Juncker APBs they all have black pins so it seems that Juncker was quite consitent with what they did, but of course theres allways an exeption to the rule.

            Kr. Thomas
            Attached Files
            Last edited by Thomas Bendixen; 07-04-2014, 06:47 AM.

            Comment

              #36
              Hi Thomas,

              thank you for your input.

              Would you be ready to receive my badge and do the personal inspection of the finish? I would like to be sure.

              As I focus only on badges made by Gablonz manufacturers I am no expert on APBs. Here are just my opinions why I think the finish is period:

              1. the sort of finish matches to the finishes that could be seen on other period badges and the finish shows the proper aging marks.

              2. the same kind of the finish was used by juncker - as showed in the thread showing Weitzes pictures of different Junckers items with same type of finish

              3. I see no problem that the pin is also coated - we see more examples of other juncker badges with completely coated hardware. So it is possible that juncker could comletely coat also this badge. Why not?

              4. I have the badge from good source, I paid almost nothing for the badge - so there was absolutely no intention to upgrade the price of the badge just because of the gold finish.

              5. From 1970 ( when the badge was found in CZ ) the badge was owned by only one person from which I have the badge

              6. why ( if somebody would refinish it) would someone do such a mistake of coating also the pin? I see very easy way to dissembly the pin, coat the badge and put the pin back.



              So opinions of other experts are very welcome. As written I am also ready to send the badge to other experts for personal inspection if needed.

              Who do you think is the most trusted expert on APBs?

              I am still missing for example an opinion of Thomas Durante, who is the trusted person in badges field.

              Best regards
              Pavel

              Comment

                #37
                Hi Pavel,

                I would love to hand/microscope inspect your badge will send you my adress.

                Kr. Thomas

                Comment

                  #38
                  Pavel,
                  I've owned over 7 BKAs over the years. I had a beautiful chocolate bronze that a few folks really liked, I did as well. However, they are a minefield so I did send to Thomas as there were several very knowledgeable folks that didn't like it. After thomas had it in hand it was determined by him it was a very well made fake. I was able to return several years later to a highly respected dealer who was very speedy with a refund. So, highly recommend you send to Thomas. Just my 2 cents.

                  Comment

                    #39
                    Hi Thomas and Gregory,

                    OK I will send the badge to Thomas for personal inspection.

                    Hope we find any conclusion. Having the badge in hand the finish looks more real than on the pictures.

                    Best regards
                    Pavel

                    Comment

                      #40
                      Hi everyone

                      I have now inspected Pavels badge and have spent many hours looking at it thrugh a microsscoope but I have found no "smooking gun". I have found pros and cons but tend to be more pro than con on this badge. If I had mony to spend I might take a chance on this one.

                      Worst things first:-) As you can see on the attached photo I found scratches under the gold finnish. This could be interpretated as proof that it was refinnished. On the other hand, if the finnish is thick it dosen't neccesarily go through to the basemetal.

                      One of the scratches is just above where the needle tip has scratched through the finnish when opening the needle. Could this scratch be from another (earlier) needle that maybe was lost and replaced with another needle before the badge was refinished? If the badge had lost its original finnish and needle this could explain why the person that refinished it didn't know that the needle should have been black - just a theory!

                      Out of the 40-50 BKA badges on file, none has grade colored needles but I have no pictures of these earliest gold grade badges so it could be original to the badge. In Tom Durantes excelent book on Luftwaffe & Heer para badges you can see on p. 443 + 467 pics of a Juncker Heer parabadges with gold finnished needles and not the usual blackend needles! The needle on the badge in question is IMO original judeging from its toolmarks and how the pointy tip is made. The dark stuff you see underneaths the cylinder and on top of the bottom hinge plate (that should have the same color as the badge) is the same and my guess would be that it is some kind of corrosion or chemical reaction. If someone had the ability to refinnish this badge so well they could easily have remowed the needle before refinishing it. If someone had the expertise to reequip a needle less badge with the correct period pin wouldn't they know that it should be black? An interesting feature is that the needle has a copper layer underneath the gold finnish. I'm not sure but the badge could well have recieved a copperlayer as well as we for instance see on Juncker Heers Flak and IAB's.

                      Concerning the finnish it could be period as it matches the finnish found on my Juncker Coastal Artillery badge (buntmetall). Early Juncker BKA's can be found in very very good condition, suggesting better feinzinck or better finnishing of badges in the early production or just little worn well preserved badges. The badge, under high magnification shows small zinckbubles attacking the finnish and small particles of dirt and fibres as I would expect for a wartime badge - it looks exactly like my vetaquired mint bronze. But ofcourse its impossible to say if this is 40 or 70 years old ageing. I find the wear on the finnish very convincing with the gilding flacking of in small bits.

                      I know we shouldn't take the story of the badge into account but in this case I find it hard not to as Pavel is know as a keen collector and researcher who share his findings.

                      Kr. Thomas

                      PS: I have tried to be as objective as I can and don't recieve anything from Pavel for making this review, in fact I could have written a negative review and maybe have gotten it cheap
                      Attached Files

                      Comment

                        #41
                        Better pics!

                        Kr. Thomas
                        Attached Files

                        Comment

                          #42
                          Very interesting "story" and research, Thomas!

                          Comment

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