The Deumer oval crimp PAB... missing link finally found!

[Giel VW]

Hi guys

Following the interesting discussion about the semantic meaning of "design" in the last Deumer thread we had http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...32#post6398332 , I thought it was time to post this treasure and welcome you all to a healthy open thread

As most of you know the Deumer PAB production went from hollow BM to hollow zink to massive zink. This seems to be very similar with their GAB and IAB products. Deumer is pretty interesting as they always have transitional material which makes it able to connect pieces in the timeline pretty easily. In that context the following surprise didn't actually came much as a surprise... though I think this last missing piece is the ABSOLUTE proof that Deumer was the maker of the oval crimped PAB's. It will be very hard to deny now it wasn't.

We initially already had a few indicators:

- Oval crimp IAB' which were found in Deumer marked packages.
- L/11 marked ek1 spanges.
- Factory repairs of Deumer crimps on all their combat awards includung the flak badges

In the thread already mentioned above Tom also brought up a VERY important point. The catch used on all these badges is extremely typical for Deumer. The tombak sheet metal catch which already dates back from the earliest tombak assault badges was married to a very small round catch plate later in the war, which was in many cases cut to fit in a certain position (massive Deumer IAB) or in a narrow wreath (hollow Deumer GAB)

In IAB world we have the following
1) Hollow tombak, straight on soldered block hinge, straight on soldered sheet metal catch
2) Hollow tombak, straight on soldered block hinge, sheet metal catch on round catch plate
3) Hollow (sometimes tombak coated) zink, straight on soldered block hinge, sheet metal catch on round baseplate
4) Hollow (sometimes tombak coated) zink, block hinge on rectangular hinge plate, sheet metal catch on round baseplate

---->Design change<-----

5) Massive zink, block hinge and sheet metal catch on round base plate (cut to fit) both in recessed areas.
6) Massive zink, wrap around hinge and wire catch with oval crimped (+factory repaired type)
7) Massive zink, wrap around hinge and sheet metal catch with vertical crimped



GAB world:
In IAB world we have the following
1) Hollow tombak, straight on soldered block hinge, straight on soldered sheet metal catch
2) Hollow tombak, straight on soldered block hinge, sheet metal catch on round catch plate
3) Hollow zink, straight on soldered block hinge, sheet metal catch on round baseplate

---->Design change<-----

4) Massive zink, block hinge and sheet metal catch on round base plate (sometimes cut)



PAB world:
1) Hollow tombak, straight on soldered block hinge, straight on soldered sheet metal catch
2) Hollow tombak, straight on soldered block hinge, sheet metal catch on round catch plate
3) Hollow (sometimes tombak coated) zink, straight on soldered block hinge, sheet metal catch on round baseplate
4) Hollow (sometimes tombak coated) zink, block hinge on rectangular hinge plate, sheet metal catch on round baseplate
4bis) Some pin variants of nr 4

---->Design change<-----

5) Massive zink, block hinge and sheet metal catch on round base plate (cut)
6) Massive zink, wrap around hinge and wire catch with oval crimped (+factory repaired type)
7) Massive zink, wrap around hinge and sheet metal catch with vertical crimp



Both GAB and IAB had as a first new design badge a massive example which features the block hinge and the catch on round cut baseplate, strangely we only know of vertical and oval crimped PAB's without the previous variant. The badge of the PAB world I marked red is one of the final puzzle pieces that needed to be found and here it is.

The badge is very nice in the way it was frosted and finished with a polished swastika and eagle wings. It received a thick tombak undercoating with a snow white silver finish. Clearly they had some problems with this new design as you'll not the misstrike and the excessive hand filing on the wreath.

Thanks for looking and hope you guys like it!
Giel

www.gielsmilitaria.com

[Giel VW]

Typical Deumer hardware

[Giel VW]

Handfiling which is pretty unusual for these mass produced massive Deumers.

[Eddie]

Very interesting Giel,thanks for sharing your findings and what a great example

[Panzercracker]

Thanks for sharing too Giel. You got the hobby by the short and curlies.

--Best,
Ken

[Thomas Durante]

Hi Giel, perfectly timing.

Excellent find, always nice to see another piece of the puzzle fall into place.

Can you take another shot or 2 of the catch, so we can see its exact shape and cutout?

Interesting problem they had with the strike, some places look double struck, but not others so its hard for me to understand how that happened. I wonder if this was a continuous problem and Deumer quickly switched to a new reverse die with crimped hardware. Could explain why we haven't seen this rare example until now.

Great find, very nice condition to boot!

Tom

[Nick Carraway]

Excellent puzzle work

[fischer]

Hi Giel

Fantastic Block Hinge solid, congrats on uncovering this beauty...A wonderful discovery!
Like Tom, I too would like to see additional pics of the catch plate shape. Is it shaped like a half moon or is it rectangular shaped?

I have a few questions, comments on the IAB portion of your post.

We initially already had a few indicators:
- Oval crimp IAB' which were found in Deumer marked packages.

I have seen a total of six (6) of the Deumer IAB packet sets.
Five had the Vertical Crimp variation IAB and the sixth one contained a Block Hinge example.

Do you have pics of a Deumer packet set that contained an Oval Crimp example?

In IAB world we have the following
1) Hollow tombak, straight on soldered block hinge, straight on soldered sheet metal catch
2) Hollow tombak, straight on soldered block hinge, sheet metal catch on round catch plate

For the Hollow Buntmetal variants, I have only seen the following;
1. A Block Hinge with the larger or wide "C" style flat stock catch and the 4R leaf lacking the center stem or...
2. A Block Hinge with the thinner flat stock "C" style catch on the examples with the 4R leaf having the center stem detail.
Both types have the hardware is directly soldered to the reverse.

Have you seen a Buntmetal example with a round catch plate in use?

3) Hollow (sometimes tombak coated) zink, straight on soldered block hinge, sheet metal catch on round baseplate
4) Hollow (sometimes tombak coated) zink, block hinge on rectangular hinge plate, sheet metal catch on round baseplate

On the Zinc Hollow examples, I have seen a few with the brassy colored undercoating applied to the zinc base before the finish overlay.
In regards to hardware, I have only seen the rectangular hinge plate and circular catch plate with the hinge and catch soldered to the plates.

Have you seen a Zinc Hollow variation with a directly soldered Block Hinge sans the rectangular hinge plate?

Again, nice find..

Best Regards, fischer

[Panzercracker]

Hi Don. I oversized the pic a bit for you. Baseplate appears to be rectangular under the catch. Hope this helps...

--Best,
Ken

[PKAliebhaber]

Typical Deumer hardware

Why should this block hinge "typical Deumer"? Just looked up my badges, found this one on some others which are made from different makers - badges who made by makers, we know with proof

[scott3000]

Nice Job Giel

[Giel VW]

Hi guys

@Don, thanks for editing the IAB story. I always thought PAB and IAB shared the same line...

@PKAliebhaber, I never said typical Deumer bloch hinge, I said set up, meaning the combination of block hinge and catch together!

@Panzercracker... wrong, it's not a rectangular baseplate, it's a cut off circle baseplate, I'm not trying to lie about something which is the hole point of this badge smile wink Will post pics later.

[Panzercracker]

The badge speaks for itself. The catchplate appeared rectangular to my eye, which is why I blew it up.

--Ken

[Norm F]

The catchplate appeared rectangular to my eye, which is why I blew it up.

--Ken

Hi Guys,

From the inadequate photo, my first instinct was like Ken's that it was a rectangular catch plate, but now that Giel has reported it to be semi-circular I can see that on the blow-up?

Although non-specific, it appear to be the same type of catch and catch plate that appear commonly on the Deumer zinc Minesweeper badge. Often these base plates are obscured by solder on the Deumer Minesweepers, making them hard to see.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Panzercracker]

Thanks for that Norm. I've got 20/20 close up, so I'm seeing that in your photo. Was only trying to assist

--Ken