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**chen** · 02-25-2014, 11:12 AM

Back to these 2 sniper badges in the grouping, are they:
1. both genuine
2. both fake
3. 20 kills is genuine while 60 kills is fake
4. 20 kills is fake while 60 kills is genuine

Attached Files

**Antonio Scapini** · 02-25-2014, 11:19 AM

Both these badges are good, and there's no way to know if the original 1 stufe badge with the Weissinger group was a 3 stufe who lost the gold chord.

**jacquesf** · 02-25-2014, 12:02 PM

Peter's post does not clarify or indicate authenticity about these badges, he merely gave his opinion. Everybody can make up their own mind about the authenticity of these, based on this thread.

My issue is not whether the badges are original or not, it is about an individual who added to the group and then sold it as originals and a group, withhelding the information about, (1)what he originally bought and (2) what he was told when he purchased the group. He then flipped over and change his tune in a very public show on this thread.

If anybody has doubts about this statement, just have a look at the watermark on the Weissinger group. That was the person who got the group from PvL , so no mistery as to who added to the group. This should answer Chris's questions. J

Quote..
"Hi,

this group seems to have been through more hands than Madonna in her late 20s...

To avoid a thread of Mengele Passport proportions... maybe a solution is to do a simple timeline ?

1) Family
2) Picker
3) PvL
4) Collector 1
5) Collector 2
6) Collector 3
7) Collector 4
8) Collector 5
9) Etc.

There seems to have been 2 crimes in the murder of this group....

IMHO faking a group is more tragic than faking a wound badge....

Crime 1) The first crime was the first collector to bury PvLs info that the badge was very probably post war. Supressing the info that it was PvLs opinion is like having the proof that your friend is not guilty of a murder... but hiding it at the trial so you can get his girlfriend.... its like offering your "virginal daughter" for marriage, but knowing you pimped her out to sailors and she has terminal syphilis.... It would IMHO be very hard to justify supressing this info as it does big damage to the integrity of the group.

Crime 2) All the add ons.... surely someone can pinpoint when that happened?

This group is in no way self authenticating.... but maybe ex owners can help fill in the timeline and see when the dirty deeds were done?"

**markus** · 02-25-2014, 12:16 PM

Originally posted by jacquesf View Post

Peter's post does not clarify or indicate authenticity about these badges, he merely gave his opinion. Everybody can make up their own mind about the authenticity of these, based on this thread.

My issue is not whether the badges are original or not, it is about an individual who added to the group and then sold it as originals and a group, withhelding the information about, (1)what he originally bought and (2) what he was told when he purchased the group. He then flipped over and change his tune in a very public show on this thread.

If anybody has doubts about this statement, just have a look at the watermark on the Weissinger group. That was the person who got the group from PvL , so no mistery as to who added to the group. J

I think it shows how nobody is reading and putting attention well on the details

I added the badges to the group originally to show the group as a whole.
I was then contacted to sell the group out of the blue.

Everything was openly discussed and agreed upon between buyer and seller. I even have the original email communication here. This is why I wrote yesterday that I have a clean conscious and speak here freely about it in the first place. I see that the buyer passed it on with no further comments...

Cheers,
M

**jacquesf** · 02-25-2014, 12:23 PM

Originally posted by markus View Post

I think it shows how nobody is reading and putting attention well on the details

I added the badges to the group originally to show the group as a whole.
I was then contacted to sell the group out of the blue.

Everything was openly discussed and agreed upon between buyer and seller. I even have the original email communication here. This is why I wrote yesterday that I have a clean conscious and speak here freely about it in the first place. I see that the buyer passed it on with no further comments...

Cheers,
M

You have contradicted yourself so many times on this thread it is laughable. To assist just check posts 290 and 297. I am thinking you are the one struggling with the details. J

**markus** · 02-25-2014, 12:32 PM

Originally posted by jacquesf View Post

You have contradicted yourself so many times on this thread it is laughable. To assist just check posts 290 and 297. I am thinking you are the one struggling with the details. J

I'm sitting at the beach house and can not check all the past postings, nor do I have time for this. I can only say very clearly that the buyer was clear on the contents of the group. I have this here in written and absolutely no problem to say this publically.
I don't assume responsibility for how the group was later sold on.
Be assured I don't have to sell a badge to make a living and am covered for life already.

Cheers,
Markus

**chen** · 02-25-2014, 08:15 PM

In post #139, it mentions that " I added the badges to the grouping originally to show the grouping as a whole".
Then in post # 321, it mentions that " the buyer was clear on the contents of the grouping" .

Now the simple question: Did the buyer ever informed by the seller that some badges in the grouping are add-on only?

**markus** · 02-25-2014, 09:18 PM

Originally posted by chen View Post

In post #139, it mentions that " I added the badges to the grouping originally to show the grouping as a whole".
Then in post # 321, it mentions that " the buyer was clear on the contents of the grouping" .

Now the simple question: Did the buyer ever informed by the seller that some badges in the grouping are add-on only?

Sherlock!

This was already confirmed by me earlier on today. Seemingly my buyer did then not pass the info on to his buyer, and so the story goes on and on...

Now, sorry, but I'm not going to stand here justifying a purchase/sale agreed upon between two collectors and as such the terms of the transaction are p&c
.

Unless we continue to discuss 'sniper badges' here I see no more sense posting on this thread:
E.g. I don't understand why the felt patches with machine-stiching sold by the big dealers in the 90ies are now deemed fake...now that's an interesting point...and again on topic.

I'm off now to see Andy Murray play in Center Court...

Cheers,
Markus

**chen** · 02-25-2014, 09:52 PM

Originally posted by markus View Post

Sherlock!

This was already confirmed by me earlier on today. Seemingly my buyer did then not pass the info on to his buyer, and so the story goes on and on...

Now, sorry, but I'm not going to stand here justifying a purchase/sale agreed upon between two collectors and as such the terms of the transaction are p&c
.

Unless we continue to discuss 'sniper badges' here I see no more sense posting on this thread:
E.g. I don't understand why the felt patches with machine-stiching sold by the big dealers in the 90ies are now deemed fake...now that's an interesting point...and again on topic.

I'm off now to see Andy Murray play in Center Court...

Cheers,
Markus

Dr. Watson,
Yes, perhaps the buyer can elaborate more.

**markus** · 02-25-2014, 10:27 PM

Originally posted by chen View Post

Dr. Watson,
Yes, perhaps the buyer can elaborate more.

Yes, shall he speak the truth and nothing but the truth!
(Especially since it seems he did not tell the next buyer there were added things in the group...)

In the meantime Sherlock, you may contribute with something real besides pretty pictures posting...remember this is about the sniper badge! Some of your first hand vet experiences perhaps?! ;o)

**markus** · 02-26-2014, 10:02 AM

Gentlemen -

This one was posted a while back on this thread.

As far as I recall, nobody commented it and it was completely ignored.

It shows a sniper badge very close to the original designs and to the best of my knowledge the white thread is UV-negative. (pls confirm)

These were the "accepted" originals and sold by many big name dealers many years back.

I wonder why they are all deemed fake nowadays. Maybe the experts here can shed some light.

Thanks!

Markus

Attached Files

**Spanish Freiwillige** · 02-26-2014, 10:17 AM

I have a question did bundeswehr use this badges in the fifites.....?

**Antonio Scapini** · 02-26-2014, 10:34 AM

It is probably as for all the rest of TR badges, that some different firms were involved in production of these badges.
The accepted pattern is accepted as there are a lot of proofs it was used and, despite what you believe Markus, it was not make in '80, as showed in this thread it was the same known pattern also in '60. But it is hard to know if it is the only original.

I'm comfortable only with it, and the badge you posted reminds me the well known fakes for reenactor market. It is cigar.

Attached Files

attachment.jpg (108.1 KB, 263 views)

**Gene** · 02-26-2014, 11:35 AM

Of all the accepted originals I have seen on various forums and in hand, I have yet to see one that came off of a uniform. No traces of threads or stitching holes. Some look a bit beat up like they have been in a drawer for years, but haven't exhibited any wear.

As far as snipers go, were there designated unit snipers (maybe a guy who was the 'best shot' out of the group) and 'true' snipers who were assigned to units?

The badges could very well be real, with most never making it to the field for presentation.

Just my two Reichspfennige

**markus** · 02-28-2014, 11:28 AM

Originally posted by Antonio Scapini View Post

It is probably as for all the rest of TR badges, that some different firms were involved in production of these badges.
The accepted pattern is accepted as there are a lot of proofs it was used and, despite what you believe Markus, it was not make in '80, as showed in this thread it was the same known pattern also in '60. But it is hard to know if it is the only original.

I'm comfortable only with it, and the badge you posted reminds me the well known fakes for reenactor market. It is cigar.

Seemingly this version which reminds you of the reenactor fakes was the "very rare accepted original sniper badge " for the largest German dealer (HW) from Hamburg, Germany at the time.

It was offered and consequently sold by them through their 1997 catalogue ("Neueingänge"). (see below)

Is it now a reenactor fake, an original variation, are both versions original or are all fake?!

Only food for thought...

Markus

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