Otto Schickle GAB?

[Robert P.]

Are these features characteristic of an Otto Schickle GAB?

Robert

[Robert P.]

,

[Robert P.]

I've had two confirmations that these features are characteristic of Schickle.

Robert

[Norm F]

Hi Robert,

I'll second that.

It's taking some time for a generation of collectors to overcome the previous attribution to Mayer, but as it turns out in early wartime it appears to have been Schickle and not Mayer who was the major Pforzheim provider of combat badges to the Wehrmacht.

I recounted much of the evidence in this thread but it's not much use until/unless the attachments reappear since the server "upgrade".

Mayer or Schickle?

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

As a reminder, here are three identically constructed Schickle Destroyer badges, the one on the left bearing Schickle's L/15 mark. The other two are stamped L/21 and L/18 by members of the Liefergemeinschaft Pforzheim (F&B and Mayer) presumably acquired by them during the well-publicized sell-off of Schickle's remaining stock in mid-1941. (The middle image of the L/21 marked example is excerpted from Tucker/Previtera's German Combat Badges of the Third Reich, vol. 1)

All three bear the same catch as seen on the GAB posted by Robert (round wire characteristically flattened at the base). The Destroyer, GAB and other Schickle-attributed war badges appear in Schickle's wartime catalog and/or catalog supplement.

Best regards,
---Norm

P.S. This topic is also covered in Volume III of "The Kriegsmarine Awards".

[Aiceman]

Robert,beautiful pictures from the hardware, but we can see the all badge?

[Robert P.]

Thanks Norm,

This is a very interesting/revealing study. Thank you for posting the photos and link to the study.

Andor,

I'll post some more photos of the badge when my camera batteries are recharged and I have more free time.

Robert

[Thomas Durante]

Nice GAB Robert, and can only agree with Norm's comments that these are indeed Schickle's. Looking forward to picking up my copy of the Kriegs book Volume III at the SOS next week.

Tom

[Robert P.]

I hope to see you there, Tom.

Robert

[Graeme]

It's taking some time for a generation of collectors to overcome the previous attribution to Mayer, but as it turns out in early wartime it appears to have been Schickle and not Mayer who was the major Pforzheim provider of combat badges to the Wehrmacht.



Best regards,
---Norm

Hi Norm

Prior to you putting your Schickle thoughts into a very good thread, there was also a generation of collectors that questioned the "Mayer" connection to some badges, in particular the Heer badges.

It has been known for ages that there was a distinct lack of real evidence for Mayer, and in that sense the badges were not attributed to Mayer by some, only referred to as the "Mayer design".

I certainly was happy to label a particular set of badges the "Mayer design" for ease of recognition, especially in the absence of other candidates for who made them.

best regards
Graeme

[Norm F]

Hi Norm

Prior to you putting your Schickle thoughts into a very good thread, there was also a generation of collectors that questioned the "Mayer" connection to some badges, in particular the Heer badges.

It has been known for ages that there was a distinct lack of real evidence for Mayer, and in that sense the badges were not attributed to Mayer by some, only referred to as the "Mayer design".

I certainly was happy to label a particular set of badges the "Mayer design" for ease of recognition, especially in the absence of other candidates for who made them.

best regards
Graeme

Hi Graeme,

A very good point, and I certainly meant no disrespect with my wording towards any sector of our collecting community, past or present. The truth is, none of my "connecting of the dots" in the Schickle story would have been remotely possible without the sum total of years of posting of dedicated and questioning collectors and the wealth of resources made available by others over the internet. The time was just ripe, is all, for airing some conclusions.

Like you say, terms like "Mayer design" and "flatback" and "Bacqueville" can be useful labels so people can recognize the topic of conversation, without being indicative of the maker. Unfortunately, too many were simply using the term "B.H. Mayer" without any reference to the unknown aspects of these badges, giving the impression of a probable attribution of manufacturer -- a practise we can now put behind us. (And all those who felt uneasy about the Mayer attribution in the past can certainly be lauded for their instincts!). I certainly started off, just like everyone else, thinking that the two L/18 marked Tombak Minesweepers to surface to date were Mayer products -- seemed obvious on the surface of things -- until the whole story gradually coalesced based upon multiple other points of evidence.

And who knows, our understanding of these badges may undergo further change and refinement over time as even more evidence comes to light.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Robert P.]

As promised here are some photos...

Robert

[Robert P.]

,

[Giel VW]

That is a beauty Robert

[Robert P.]

That is a beauty Robert

Thank you Giel,

It really is in premium condition as far as the hardware goes when taking into account the wear to the obverse.

Robert