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    #46
    and last photo to compare.
    Please remember that photographs (Ron and my) were made at different angles, different light, etc. Badges also have different degrees of wear. Looking at the work done by Ken - numbered boxes match up perfectly. If JFS GAB 75 badges was made in 1 production runs, only ?

    Regards,
    Piotr
    Attached Files

    Comment

      #47
      on what I have shown, we see that the cuts are different.
      I have a 75 JFS and it is exactly like the two of Ron.

      Phil.

      Comment

        #48
        You see lots of differences??? I think there are tons of similarities. IMO, Piotr's is the superior looking badge with even more pebbling (THAT MATCHES LIKE A FINGERPRINT!) going right down the toes!!! The details everywhere else is crisper and I'll leave it at that. I recently found a miniature Meybauer IAB in bronze. Does that mean it's a fake?? Come on. Then I suppose we only consider what we "read/see" (IN BOOKS) as fact????? This badge is innocent until proven guilty. It sures says a lot more to me than the other examples do. --Ken
        Last edited by Panzercracker; 05-14-2012, 06:37 PM.

        Comment

          #49
          Nobody said NAY to this mini and it's the only one ever seen here (on the WAF). See pics. Has anyone seen a fake made like it? Or like Piotr's badge??? Good luck. --Rgds, Ken
          Attached Files

          Comment

            #50
            Whilst learning more about GAB's from all the threads i got intrigued by this one and deceided to superimpose some of the great pics provided here in photoshop and fiddle with the opacity slide a bit.
            I can only agree with Ken that no significant differences can be found except that fox-terier's example if anything is more detailed and crisp, especially the talons.
            The difference in their actual shape seems easily explained by the amount of material that was removed as tool marks in the corners on Fox-teriers cutout zone clearly show ( e.g. right side talon corner clearly shows 2 toolmarks in different directions ).

            So far what i can confidently say since it requires no actual knowledge of GAB's (which i am in the process of aqcuiring in preparation of my 1st), just being able to observe.

            WARNING: For those who don't mind me speculating wildly based on my limited abzeichen knowledge in the following bit... read on.
            I thought i read about these numbered badges eagles not being coated but rather blackened through a chemical reaction, in which case i would expect a crisper look to them.The fact that even with a finish on it the silver eagle looks crisper and more detailed would make me think the die was younger when it was stamped ( Ken also said something about it being a possible earlier run in post #17 ).On some locations the silver finish flows in certain ways because of imperfections that also show up in a less prenounced way in RonR's examples, another indication of a "less fresh" die and thus later production run for RonR's examples?

            Kind regards, Olivier

            Comment

              #51
              '75' General

              fox-terier:

              I give your "75" the 'Thumbs-up'! I read through the entire thread & looked at the pieces that were presented for comparison & went & dug out my "75" & "100" & I don't have any problem stating that your badge is original.

              Mine are pretty well 'twins' to Ron's pieces & mine have more of the original finishes on them than his that are shown. We all seem to have the similar "spacing" issues wherein the eagle, bayonet & grenade don't sit 'exactly like they should' & I would say that this is probably due to the fact that these pieces weren't all made at the same time, nor on the same day & most likely not by the same worker.

              Ron

              Comment

                #52
                Gab 75

                Hi , in my opinion Piotr badge is an original ground dug badge. Some of them was found in Hel penisula and in other location in Gdansk area in 90's , I think it's one of them.

                Best Regards
                Grzegorz

                Comment

                  #53
                  Hi guys,

                  Well I guess I am the odd man out here, because I think Piotr's badge is suspicous. While I agree that the details of the badge are excellent and by all accounts correct, I cannot get past the finish, it just doesn't look like original JFS finish in my opinion. Another anomoly is the rivets, they look to be the correct shape but look how loose they are and they don't seem to align right with the holes in the wreath. Also a bit suspicious IMO. Also, doesn't anyone find it odd that the eagle silver and not black like Ron's two examples?

                  I feel that the badge itself is original, but it could be refinished IMO. All the issues I mention above could add up to someone taking the eagle off the wreath and refinishing it, and putting it back on IMO.

                  The only caveat for me is that these were aledgedly ground dug. Perhaps the conditions in the ground led to the finish not appearing like we normally see on JFS badges. And perhaps the condition led to the eagle's black finish to come off, but leaving the rest of the badge intact. But that doesn't explain the loose rivets, so at this point my gut is that this is an original, but possibly refinished badge.

                  Tom
                  If it doesn't have a hinge and catch, I'm not interested......well, maybe a little

                  New Book - The German Close Combat Clasp of World War II
                  [/SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
                  Available Now - tmdurante@gmail.com

                  Comment

                    #54
                    ...it's close but I'm not sure they come from the same dies...
                    Pieter.
                    SUUM CUIQUE ...
                    sigpic

                    Comment

                      #55
                      I'm with Pieter on this one: I don't believe it is from the same exact dies.
                      (Not saying it is a fake.)

                      Comment

                        #56
                        Originally posted by Pieter Verbruggen View Post
                        ...it's close but I'm not sure they come from the same dies...
                        Pieter.
                        Hi Pieter,

                        What do you think about the finish?

                        Tom
                        If it doesn't have a hinge and catch, I'm not interested......well, maybe a little

                        New Book - The German Close Combat Clasp of World War II
                        [/SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
                        Available Now - tmdurante@gmail.com

                        Comment

                          #57
                          In these two sets of comparison photos, how does one explain 1.) the differences between the ends of the "blood groove" of the bayonets, 2.) the curvature of the grenade handle as it joins to the cap, and 3) the location of the flaw on the leaf vein? Are these just the result of the die striking process, the conditions to which the pieces were exposed over time, the existence of multiple dies, or just "copy technology"?
                          Attached Files

                          Comment

                            #58
                            Hi Leroy,

                            Very good questions. If it were a copy, then I think these details would show up in the copy if they can be found on the original. I see no traces of either flaw in Piotr's example.

                            That would therefore suggest that these were made with 2 separate dies. Or it could be that Piotr's example, if original, was an earlier example before the die flaws were created. That might make sense with the leaf flaw, but not really with the bayonet flaw, which looks too neat to be considered a "flaw" in my opinion. That makes me lean toward the 2 separate die theory.

                            Tom
                            If it doesn't have a hinge and catch, I'm not interested......well, maybe a little

                            New Book - The German Close Combat Clasp of World War II
                            [/SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
                            Available Now - tmdurante@gmail.com

                            Comment

                              #59
                              Originally posted by gt1234 View Post
                              Hi , in my opinion Piotr badge is an original ground dug badge. Some of them was found in Hel penisula and in other location in Gdansk area in 90's , I think it's one of them.

                              Best Regards
                              Grzegorz
                              I can confirm that this is one of them.
                              Regards,
                              Piotr
                              Attached Files

                              Comment

                                #60
                                Hi Piotr,

                                Do you have any pictures of when they were dug out of the ground and what condition they were in when found?

                                Thanks

                                Tom
                                If it doesn't have a hinge and catch, I'm not interested......well, maybe a little

                                New Book - The German Close Combat Clasp of World War II
                                [/SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
                                Available Now - tmdurante@gmail.com

                                Comment

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