Cut-out grass/Screw-back Porsche PAB

[Philippe DB]

Hi Guys,


Thanks for all your nice comments and, and I didn't doubt for a second that you guys would appreciate such an uncommon PAB.

Sal to answer you question, in fact I can't. I can only speculate why this was done. In fact this badge combines 2 very uncommon features the Screw-back and the cut-out grass.

Since the screwback excited on EKI and was sold only through retail channels I can imaging that it had it's advantages compared to it's needle pin brothers. On the other hand it was probably much to expensive to produce all official examples that way. So probably soldiers who knew the advantages of screwback attachments (a much tighther fit) would have wanted them on their other decorations as well. But probably only a few of them had the skills to preform such a modification or knew people capable of doing it for them.

The cut-out grass is a completely different phenomenone and has nothing to do with practicality. I can only imagin that this was somekind of fashion statement just like vaulting badges was. Was it against regulations? I wouldn't know. But painting a peace symbol on your helmet probably also was against regulations but didn't prevent a lot of American soldiers to do it anyway during the Vietnam war.

Who knows maybe some Panzer units (or crews) just started doing it as a way to distinguish themselfs from there colleagues. Your guess is as good as mine. If only we had more pictures of this type of badge in wear we maybe would be able to find out more.

KR
Philippe

[Sal Williams]

Hi Philippe,
If the speculation is that the cut out grass is a custom or hand done fashion thing and not made by the factory how can one tell if it was done during the war or if somebody did it in modern times? How many cut out grasses have you seen? (on the web at shops or in person?) How many other period photos have you seen? They sure are cool looking!
Best, Sal

[Lorenzo Brown]

I think the addition of the "anti-rotating pins" give it a degree of credibility as a war-time piece. Many fakers forgot to add such devices which would be necessary if one were to wear the badge on a uniform.

The only thing I can't figure is how that device worked? To what was it connected to prevent rotation? I would expect to see a simple top-hook that connected to a thread loop.

How would this device work?

[Philippe DB]

Hi Sal,


As stated in the beginning of this thread I know of the 3 cut-out grass PAB's on Mike's site an I have 4 pictures in my files of this badge in wear.

This is the first one I ever encountered any ware, be it screwback, a cut -out grass version or a combination of both like this badge.

As far as I'm aware of nobody on this forum has such a badge in his collection, or if they have one they are not willing to post it.

KR
Philippe

[Sal Williams]

Hi Sal,


As stated in the beginning of this thread I know of the 3 cut-out grass PAB's on Mike's site an I have 4 pictures in my files of this badge in wear.

This is the first one I ever encountered any ware, be it screwback, a cut -out grass version or a combination of both like this badge.

As far as I'm aware of nobody on this forum has such a badge in his collection, or if they have one they are not willing to post it.

KR
Philippe

Well it sure is beautiful and of all the luck it is a Cadillac PAB! Are the others different makers or does it seem that they are all the same maker?
Best , Sal

P.s. I wonder if with that few known if they are all related in some way, as you said a specific unit or something? I would think so with so few around!

[Philippe DB]

The only thing I can't figure is how that device worked? To what was it connected to prevent rotation? I would expect to see a simple top-hook that connected to a thread loop.

How would this device work?

Hi Guys

I just did a little experiment with the badge and a piece of cloth. IMO the use of the retaining device was as simple as it was effective.

I think the check shaped pins were simply pushed through the uniform cloth. Due to there shape the cloth would perfectly be held in place. This would have left 3 little holes in the uniform, but that wouldn't really have been a problem since the uniform would never been worn without the badge.

This way of attatching the badge would not only be a lot faster then having to go to a tailor to sew on the normal loops, but it also allows the badge to fit the uniform perfectly. Ones the screw is fastened you can't even push your fingernail between the cloth and the badge without using a little force.

Here are two scans of how it looked.

KR
Philippe

[Philippe DB]

From the front

[johnrtse]

Looking at the way the grass has been very carefully removed from the badge, it was done, without a doubt, by a master jeweler.

Congratulations on such a find!

Any chance of getting a picture of the reverse without the round screwback in place? (To see how the threaded post is attached to the badge)

[Philippe DB]

Any chance of getting a picture of the reverse without the round screwback in place? (To see how the threaded post is attached to the badge)

Hi John,

I made a scan of the badge without the screwback in place, and two more that show how the inside of the wreath looks where the grass was cut away.

However I decided not to post these as a matter of precaution. Since such a badge could be faked starting from an original it's maybe better not to give every detail away.

If anybody ever encounters another example don't hessitate to contact me at that moment we can compare all the details.

KR
Philippe

[trotlin13]

Philippe:


Incidentally, my favorite panzer photo in my collection could also be your badge. A nice shot of GD panzer with cut out badge. Hope you enjoy,

Dylan

[Philippe DB]

Thanks Dylan much appreciated

Certainly looks like another complete cut-out. I hope you don't mind me saving this pic in my files. I now have 5 of the badge in wear and all feature the complete cut-out. That certainly wasn't the rule. The EWE and Porsche PAB's on Mike's site only show partialy cut out grass areas. Only the Wurster is a complete cut-out.

Dylan I don't know anything when it comes to uniforms. Are you able to tell in wich panzer division the guy in your picture served and could you or somebody else do that also for the guy in the picture Denis posted?

stupid question you mentioned it DG probably means "Gross Deutschland"

Thanks
KR
Philippe

[Denis]

Hi Guys
Jürgen Freiherr von Maercken zu Geerath was awarded his KC as Oblt. in 1/Pz. Rgt. 36 (14. Pz. Div.) on 17/09/41. He reached the rank of Major and died on 14/02/45. His final unit was PZ. Ers. Abt. "Sagan" (I have no info about this unit).
Hope this helps
Regards
Denis

[Philippe DB]

All help is welcome Denis


The more I'm thinking about it the more I'm getting intrigued by the question if the cut-out grass was more than just a fashion statement.

From memory I can't recall any other badge being "mutilated" that way, apart from vaulting badges. So who knows, if we could find more photographic evidence we might be able to recognize a pattern.

KR
Philippe

[jacques]

Hi

I tryed to answer this morning but no time, and Denis devanced me.

[jacques]

I saw that kind of badge one month ago. It was an hollow one and the ground have been handmade cut out.