Not for the faint of heart PAB collector....

[robert60446]

Well done Robert! I salute the manner you did it, and your shooting prowess

A MOST INTERESTING experiment. What kind of energy is that bullet coming out at? I imagine that has a lot to do with her penetrating like that. Amazing velocities punched a neat hole. KUDOS!

My good old friend, how are you?

Anyhow, based on my calculations at 100yds remaining energy should be around 2500 Ft - Lbs. In other words it would hurt like hell...

[barry1954]

Thanks for the info Robert Would be interesting to see what a mauser,period ammo(if that would still be any good) and the gel wrapped in clothing would do. At what distance was the target set at? Sorry if I missed it in the video.
Barry

[robert60446]

At what distance was the target set at? Sorry if I missed it in the video.
Barry

Barry, it was slightly over 100 yds - i was trying to stay inside 100 meters because against many false believes this was the most common distance for sniper hits during WWII...

[ApathyL]

Barry,
I'm planning test like this, hopefully at the begging of the next year. I want to do this during winter conditions. I'm also planning on "wrapping" ballistic gel in to the denim which will closely simulate material used for German uniforms. As for the bullets - armies at that time were often using full metal jacket bullets. These bullets were excellent for penetrations. One of the most popular rifles of WWII was good old bolt action Mauser (ironically used by Germans and Russians) with caliber 7.92x57 mm - very powerful caliber. To give you better idea, original AK47 was 7.62x39, more modern version - AK74 is 5.35x35 mm (M16 by US forces from Vietnam is 5.56 mm)...Americans started WWII with M1903 Springfield which was cal. 30-03 or 30-06. Tikka used by me closely assembles characteristics of M1903 rifle...

einstein pffffff

[marisca lrommel]

Impressive, I have not cried but in my life since he was young, that plate pity. You have the connection of the other video in which it shoots to a false PAB?

[Bob Hritz]

Thank goodness that we still have personal property rights. The owner of a piece may do with it as he wishes.

Bob Hritz

[Chet Sowersby]

Bob,
I appreciat that. Thank you.

Chet

[Don D.]

Bob is always the voice of reason in an otherwise chaotic thread.

[robert60446]

otherwise chaotic thread.

Common Don, this is the hottest thread on WAF since S&L saga...

[Don D.]

Glad you are drawing fire Robert and not me.

[John T]

I would have not expected the badge to have shattered with a shot from a high velocity projectile. You can not assume that all zinc used on these badges has the same properties when made. Consider keepers on RR officials or JFS SS officer's buckles, these crumple apart easily...is it due to the nature of the the design of a keeper or the nature of the zinc used? Sometimes zinc-pest can easily be removed from a badge and at other times it simply can not be done.

In a true scientific experiment many more variables would have to be accounted for and you would have to have a higher test group then just one example. You would have to test zinc PAB badges by different makers for example, more than one badge by the same maker, badges in different condition by the same maker, many other things that I can not think of in a few seconds, the "experiment" as it stands is nothing but "great fun". I would not advocate a true experiment on this subject as there would be less for future generations to collect and I do not support the destruction of historic items.

As for the question of destroying a piece of history I agree with the theory of personal property rights but I can see where perhaps the use of a denazified or already ruined piece would have been advantageous.

Best,

J

[robert60446]

In a true scientific experiment many more variables would have to be accounted for and you would have to have a higher test group then just one example. You would have to test zinc PAB badges by different makers for example, more than one badge by the same maker, badges in different condition by the same maker, many other things that I can not think of in a few seconds, the "experiment" as it stands is nothing but "great fun". I would not advocate a true experiment on this subject as there would be less for future generations to collect and I do not support the destruction of historic items.

As for the question of destroying a piece of history I agree with the theory of personal property rights but I can see where perhaps the use of a denazified or already ruined piece would have been advantageous.

Best,

J

John, you are touching some interesting points. However before receiving badge from Chet i was busy annihilating old fakes in some strange conditions (i guess some people were trying to make them look old) and they all survived multiple shots. I'm almost positive that any other badge will act in exactly the same way. Let me explain why. We can calculate bullet spin speed from this formula:

Muzzle velocity times 720
------------------------- = RPM
Twist rate in inches

</pre>So from my Tikka bullet was spinning roughly at 216,000 RPM's...so imagine that bullets were drilling holes in this PAB with over 200,000 RPM's speed! In my opinion this is fast enough to go through badge before any molecules had any time to react...

[nonameno]

Hello Robert,
Great shooting! This thread is a lot of fun. In my opinion, that is one of the major reasons we collect in the first place, is for fun. So, if a badge gets destroyed as part of the fun, welcome to 'boys and their toys'.
I also loved the music you had to accompany the video! I recognize the music from some recent movie, but can't put my finger on it...
Thank you for sharing,
Curtiss

[WEISNER]

Wait a minute! I just bought that badge on the stand!!! It showed no holes in the photos!
Nice Shot MAN!
Kevin

[Hans N]

Shure it´s Chets badge and he does as he pleases with it ...
but I see no reason to destroy a perfectly good Wurster zincer "in the name of science" when there are heaps of badges that lost their hardware as well as a corroded ground dug pieces.


@Darrell,

why not comment on GCA your self?