Announcement

**Dennis GT** · 09-01-2009, 11:20 PM

Thank you Chet and Robert for posting this

Hi All,
I have loved this thread. Simple idea that goes way over what I would have expected. Should have known when some clean a badge and there is outrage what would happen when one was shot!

This is one of the best things I have seen in years. Thank you Chet and Robert for posting this.

Dennis

**Chet Sowersby** · 09-01-2009, 11:32 PM

Dennis,
Thanks to you and Chris. However, you can't beat Chris's remark about "sand in the vagina" reguarding apathly's remarks.

Chet

**ibrahim ahmad** · 09-02-2009, 12:05 AM

Hey Chet and Robert,

My suggestion, please create a poll to see if people agree with what you are doing?

Cheers,
Ibrahim.

**Ronny.R** · 09-02-2009, 12:12 AM

Originally posted by Chet Sowersby View Post

Dion,
Love you buddy.

With this this thread I realize there are far more idiots than I can ever imagin. Oh wait, go over to the GCA......

Chet

I didn’t intend to make a post in this thread but…. and I always try to be civilized

Thanks Chet mate much appreciated, guess what there idiots are closer than that.
Mirror mirror upon the wall….

Cheers,
Ronny

**Sal Williams** · 09-02-2009, 12:15 AM

I think it is a shame that they shot up a nice PAB, because I don't think much was actually learned from it,...BUT it was Chets badge for Christ sake! He can do whatever he wants with it, it really is that simple!

**Bruce Simcox** · 09-02-2009, 12:29 AM

Hi Guys......

......Great thread. Great idea. Great execution.

You know.......that when the sun finally explodes none of this is going to make a rats a$$ worth of difference.

As far as contributing a badge for whatever purpose....it just so happens that they aren't going to dry up any time soon....

And.......thanks to the lunatics doing drive-bys......we already know what happens when automobiles catch bullets......so that comparison is useless.

AJ · 09-02-2009, 03:02 AM

What a waste...............................

That PAB survived 60 years and got destroyed for what ???

Strange way to collect....................................

**Hans N** · 09-02-2009, 03:10 AM

Originally posted by Chet Sowersby View Post

Hans,
I want you to know that I have donated shields, medals, combat badges, insigna and EK's to others who I felt were deserving because of their intrest and partisipation on the forum. Most cases they were young collectors and yet others I knew did not have the means to purchase something nice. I have contributed money to this forum as well as the GDC. Belive it or not there is a post from a GDC member recommending that Robert or perhaps myself wear the badge next time it gets shot. Condoning violence? Lighten up everyone. This is just a freaking hobby!

Please enjoy it.....

Chet

Kudos to you Chet, and i mean it!! That is exactly what the hobby is about and i have no problems with that at all but just because of that it doesn´t mean that i have to agree to everything that is said and done. I still think there are far more better "history pieces" that could have been used for this test. But as i previously wrote the PAB was yours and you have the right to do what ever pleases you with it.

Now a question to Robert regarding this "scientific test" done by him, does the rifle and ammo used in the test comply to the war time weapons and ammo? A 30-06, 7,92 or a 7,62 don´t have matching prestanda to my knowledge. A test properly done would have had several types of war time weapons and war time ammo.

The only thing this test did tell us is that the PAB in question was penetrated twice by a modern Tikka rifle and certain type of ammo... and due to those wasn´t showing any shattering which might have to do with the velocity of the bullet.

I have a hard time to beleave that for example a 9 mm round would do the same damage to the badge at the same distance and angle.

So when is the KC test due?

**R.Howard** · 09-02-2009, 03:35 AM

Interesting.

Now, being a new collector, it wasn't the most fun to watch...

but figureing the PAB isn't the easiest to find, but it's not the rarest....

I wouldn't do that to any of my stuff, but do what you want with your edals for all I care...

I just don't want to see videos of anything extremly rare being shot up...but that's just my opinion...If you can afford it, go ahead

**mrg** · 09-02-2009, 04:09 AM

Vey interesting, and good shooting

,

I do however feel that we cannot say all Pabs would react like this, as the actual circumstances that were created are not the same regarding weapons, type, and method of manufacture, ammunition used would also have to be in keeping with that in WW2. Conditions that the Pab may have been through such as extreme heat, cold etc, would also be varying from Pab to Pab as all would effect the composition of the metal. As already mention you would have to test various PABs in varying conditions with weaponery and ammunition from WW2 for a real test. Then you would have to test varying angles, deflections etc. It would be a nightmare to carry out a test like this. Bet it was good fun though, and it was your Pab and your money so what the hell

Can we see the KC now

this time hit with a Bazzoka.

**John Henderson** · 09-02-2009, 05:04 AM

Originally posted by Darrell View Post

A couple of reasons.

1. Since Tom is a well respected member (and Moderator) of both forums I asked him (here) to comment over on GCA himself. He did, and congratulations for sticking to his same opinions there as he did here.

I've read both parallel threads with amusement really. Up to this point I didn't have a say one way or the other, but found it rather strange that EVERYONE at GCA took great offense to the Test, that is until Tom stated his view. Likewise most reviews here were positive.

I'm quite sure most of the hostility over there had NOTHING to do with the test and results obtained, but, rather by WHO did them. Seems to be quite a few "falling" outs happening lately and if you are on the list, it doesn't matter what you do, the BnZ'ers will come to the attack.

2. Why didn't "I" post over there? Well, for one, I've been there, done that and don't really care to start again. I was curious over the reaction to Tom's post. So far, not much. Unlike someone unwilling to go with the "Status Quo".

Both forums are guilty of the "Lemmings" who spring to action to pat their Power Brokers on the back for whatever they say.

(ex. see John Henderson or whatever his real handle is)

Well after reading this I have a few points I would like to make.
Firstly my real handle is John Henderson. I dont hide behind any other name, like so many others. I have never been rude to anybody on this forum, but I have had rudeness levied at me for being a Scot with the Megrahi debacle.
Secondly I see no reason for a personal attack on me for agreeing that this excercise was a waste of a good badge. Thats my opinion and I am entitled to it. since I pay my 26 like everybody else who want to support the forum. A de nazified or one with broken hardwear would have done the job in the same way. Left the owner of the badge , as he puts it to donate it to a worthy cause. This whole forum is about opinions, if people dont like others saying there mind, they should not put anything up for discussion. The excercise itself was educational, I just felt as a few others, a lesser conditioned badge was more fitting. Up to now I have posted as much as I feel qualified to post, partly due to the respect I give to others. So for the writer to call me a lemming, I could offer him a few choice words of my own. Finally, I would say I have watched with a lot of interest over the last year, I have been a member, there are a few individuals who post, that are rude, dont have there real names and dont consider others newish in the game. I have read posts where members complain, about fraudsters and people selling with zero posts. In light of that perhaps we should all use our real names.

**robert60446** · 09-02-2009, 05:15 AM

Originally posted by Hans N View Post

Now a question to Robert regarding this "scientific test" done by him, does the rifle and ammo used in the test comply to the war time weapons and ammo? A 30-06, 7,92 or a 7,62 don´t have matching prestanda to my knowledge. A test properly done would have had several types of war time weapons and war time ammo.

The only thing this test did tell us is that the PAB in question was penetrated twice by a modern Tikka rifle and certain type of ammo... and due to those wasn´t showing any shattering which might have to do with the velocity of the bullet.

I have a hard time to beleave that for example a 9 mm round would do the same damage to the badge at the same distance and angle.

OK, because i was bombarded with some PM's and additional questions I will try to address these when talking to Hans because he is discussing some of these as well....

Hans,
I have focused on 30-06 because the same caliber was used on Springfield M1903 - a choice for US snipers during WWII. The bullet diameter on it is .308". Soviets and Brits were using slightly larger bullet .311" in diameter. But the key is velocity. I'm making my own loads and i have matched velocity to what we could expect from Springfield M1903 - i was in the neighborhood of 2850 fps. So as you can see together with Chet we have spend some time to prepare for this event. Let me assure you that it wasn't just "stupid shootout".
ps. you are touching very interesting angle on 9mm as well. 9mm round is much larger caliber but is limited by the effective killing range and accuracy. After all it is a pistol round. I have some Sig's in my collection so i can take some shots at it, but i think we have to cut distance to something like 7-15 yds which will simulate very well close combat distance...

**paddywhack** · 09-02-2009, 05:19 AM

I find it amazing a $200 odd badge can generate remarks stating people should be shot and other personal attacks! People need to relax and have a beer! There simple lumps of metal in the end and certainly not worth what some people have advocated doing! Yes it of course its a shame it got shot but thats life!think how many get thrown away each year!honestly some people need to get out more!well done chet and rob!

**Hans N** · 09-02-2009, 07:21 AM

Thanks Robert. As you might know the lenght of the barrel also affects the bullets velocity and if we stick to the 9 mm it basicly means that if you compare the Sig you mentioned to a MP40 you´ll get different results as well even if you use the exact same ammo.

What´s the lenght of your Tikka barrel? It looked slightly modified to me compared the standard T3´s i´ve seen before.

**münster** · 09-02-2009, 07:26 AM

In interest of this thread I have tested this out via my Dad in the USA with a Colt on a DKIG. The results are a straight clean entry with a messy exit, I will post the video when its done uploading on youtube.

Announcement

Not for the faint of heart PAB collector....

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Users Viewing this Thread