IAB Opinions

[Gary B]

Hi Tom and others,

Thanks for the comments. I had purchased this badge at least a decade ago, probably more like 15 years ago when I was buying IABs. No book out then on IABs (I dont have the new one yet) and I thought this one had an unusual MM which is why I picked it up. I had not looked at this piece in 10 years so I thought I would post it for opinions. I still have not seen this MM on any badges, if it ever was used on original TR badges.

I will post measurements later, for edification/education of others.

Gary B

[Hans N]

Hi,

for what it´s worth i agree to the fullest in Toms raised issues. To me this is not a good badge.

[stewy]

I've gotta say i wish i'd seen the reverse before posting. Obverse is very convincing but the reverse is suspect. Stewy

[fischer]

Hi Gary

Thanks for the info on the MH maker mark. I did a search and found some of the old threads on this mm.

As stewy stated the obverse makes a convincing RK and the hardware is pretty close. With the full reverse scans it gives the appearance, in my opinion of a casting.

You stated you have had this badge for 15 years...This would make it older fake.

Interesting, thanks for posting it.

Best Regards, fischer

[Gary B]

Hi,

Thanks for the comments. I will post measurements for everyone's education when I am home from work.

So it appears that this "company" uses various original badges for their reproductions and adds the MH hallmark, (i.e. RK IAB, Aurich PAB).

I posted the fact that I had this badge for 15 years so there would not be any confusion that this is something new from Stagemeier (or however you spell his name). Funny we do not see more of these MH pieces.

Thanks all.

Gary B

P.S. Fischer, I sent you a PM.

[Thomas Durante]

Hi Gary,

I don't think Staegemeir was making fakes back then, and he certainly wasn't able to capture the correct crimped in hardware of originals back then, so IMO this was someone different. This makes sense since the F&BL CCC fakes, the MH CCC fakes and the Ball Hinge Aurich fakes are some of the best fakes around, very high quality and still fool collectors to this day.

As far as the ball hinge fake Aurich PABs, they are similar in design to Aurich, but definately not the same exact obverse design. They were used as the model, but only closely, not exactly. That differs a bit with this IAB, which seems to match Karneth IABs exactly in obverse detail.

Regardless of all that, I think there are some piece of evidence that we can see that these are the same fakes as the MH PABs. Here is a compare of the maker mark on the fake PAB and this IAB. They are identical, specifially how the top LEFT part of the "M" is blunt and low, and the top RIGHT part is skinnier and higher. Same thing can be seen with the "H", where the LEFT leg is longer than the RIGHT leg. I tried to look for an original badge with a legit MH maker mark to compare it with, but don't think any exist. Do you guys know of any? Without this information, we can't be sure if this was the exact tool used to make the MH mark, but we can definately say that THE MARK ON THE IAB IS THE EXACT SAME AS THAT FOUND ON FAKE PABS!

Tom

[Gary B]

Good detective work!

Gary B

[Graeme]

Hi Gary

I would like to see accurate measurements of the badge, and if possible a couple more hinge pics from different angles, such as from the eagles head end of the badge.
Does the catch appear to be soldered in to the "crimped" area. Does it rotate at all?

There are certainly a few red flags on this badge, mainly the reverse finish, tension hook, lacking obverse detail (although this could be a wear issue) and the catch area looks "off".

IMO the maker mark is bogus.

Things to bear in mind on the positive side, is that RK IABs were made in abundance, with most likely several dies being used. There are variants and although most have hollowed reverse areas rather than being flat, this should not be discarded just because of the flat reverse. The lack of hollowed areas could account for the slightly higher weight as noted by Fischer, my examples are also in the 20-21 gram range.
The hinge looks very realistic and can't recall seeing such on a fake. In fact the hinge is really the area that prevents me from calling this a fake at the moment.

regards
Graeme

[Gary B]

Hi,

Here are the measurements:

62.65 mm
47.06 mm

Any additional pix will haveo to wait until I get some daylight.

Gary B

[Gary B]

Hi,

At the request of a few members here are additional pictures of the hinge area.

Gary B

[Gary B]

Hinge 1

[Gary B]

Hinge 2

[Gary B]

Hinge 3

[Gary B]

Hinge Straight on