IAB Opinions

[Gary B]

Hi,

Looking for opinions on this IAB.

Thanks in advance.

Gary B

[Gary B]

Hinge

[Gary B]

Catch

[fischer]

It looks to me like an unpebbled R. Karneth attributed example.

Does it have a crack next to the berry ribbon? You can see it next to the catch on your reverse pic.

Best Regards, fischer

[Gary B]

Dear Fischer,

Thanks for the reply. I was hoping you would reply to this thread. I will post some more pix in a few.

The crack does not carry all the way thru to the front. The badge is a semi hollow.

Gary B

[stewy]

Yep as Fischer says an R.Karneth. Stewy

[Gary B]

Thanks for the replies...here is MM and reverse.

Gary B

[Gary B]

Mm

[fischer]

Hi Gary

Can you please post the weight of this one?

Best Regards, fischer

[Gary B]

Dear Fischer,

22.4 grams

Gary B

[fischer]

Hello Gary

Thanks for posting the weight. I only have my two examples to compare and yours is about 2.5 grams heavier than mine.

When I first looked at the obverse it appeared to me just a worn RK silver example.

With your scans of the full reverse it looks to me like a cast. In looking at the rifle stock you see "flash" material and lack of detail.

As for the mm, I have not seen this before either.

From what I see with these pics, I would not have this badge in my collection.

Lets see what some of the others have to say.

Best Regards, fischer

[Gary B]

Hi Fisher,

The MM is attributed to MORITZ HAUSCH which has been a controversial maker in the past since it has not been seen before. Apparently the MH maker is to be found on PABs and GABs (according to Tucker, but no one knows where he got his info). Additionally a CCC was posted a while ago with this MM ang got mixed reveiws.

In posting this I was assuming it would be a piece that draws controversy since no one has seen this MM before.

Gary B

[Thomas Durante]

Hi Gary,

Your IAB looks very convincing from the obverse and the hardware, but the reverse looks pretty pourous, especially for a Karneth whose reverses are typically very smooth. Can you give us some dimensions on it and a weight?

As far as the MH PABs & CCCs are concerned, they are both reproductions. Because of the lack of consensus previously on these badges, I made a point to study them both a few months ago. The MH PABs share the exact same obverse die as the fake Aurich ball hinge fakes that have been around for about 20 years now. I did a thread on these a few months ago on the GCA forum, I will go try to find it for you. With the MH CCCs, a close study of them also reveals that they are fakes, made by the same guys that produce the "butterknife" fake. Has the same exact reverse die as the very common F&BL fakes shown on page 284 of my CCC book which I think you have. Obverse is slightly different, but the similarities are there to see and the reverse die and same backplate crimping are undeniable.

I think we need to study this IAB a bit more, but I think we will come to the same conclusion as with the MH PABs & CCCs.

Tom

[Thomas Durante]

Hi guys

Here is my research thread from GCA:

http://www.germancombatawards.com/th...hilight=mh+pab

Tom

[Thomas Durante]

Hi Gary,

Another telling sign on yours that lets us know we are looking at a well cast reproduction is how the tension foot of the pin does NOT hit the crimp for the hinge, yet there is a clear mark there. That is due to the fact that the original badge that this fake was cast from did have its pin hit in this location, and the casting picked up that mark of the original badge. The faker however didn't pick up on this when he put on this fake pin. It doesn't look like a replacement and looks original tot he clasp with the same simulated patina, so I think this is a huge red flag compared to the others things I have mentioned.

I think we are looking at a new clever fake from our friend Staegemeir.

Tom