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If it doesn't have a hinge and catch, I'm not interested......well, maybe a littleNew Book - The German Close Combat Clasp of World War II
[/SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Available Now - tmdurante@gmail.com
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MotifIf it doesn't have a hinge and catch, I'm not interested......well, maybe a littleNew Book - The German Close Combat Clasp of World War II
[/SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Available Now - tmdurante@gmail.com
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So where does the backing plate go?pseudo-expertComment
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Hi Don,
They didn't get that far with this piece. Looks to me like they were testing out just the obverse with absolutely no provisions for the reverse hardware at this stage.
TomIf it doesn't have a hinge and catch, I'm not interested......well, maybe a littleNew Book - The German Close Combat Clasp of World War II
[/SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Available Now - tmdurante@gmail.com
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Since the obverse die and reverse die have to work together why would they do this?pseudo-expertComment
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Hi Don,
During testing, wouldn't it be possible to just have a flat block of steel as the reverse die? I would think that any company would have a way to do some test strikes of the obverse design without wearing out the reverse die on test planchets.
A bigger question in my mind is why they would bother to cut out the swastika arms on a test planchet. I guess maybe to see what the finish product would look like. Wonder why they couldn't cut the arms out as part of the obverse die.
TomIf it doesn't have a hinge and catch, I'm not interested......well, maybe a littleNew Book - The German Close Combat Clasp of World War II
[/SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Available Now - tmdurante@gmail.com
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Cutting out the swaz by hand makes no sense to me. How could you possibly mass produce this?
Personally, other than the PAB I will remain skeptical of these.pseudo-expertComment
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Hi Don,
Why only the PAB??
The GAB planchet matches exactly an L/10 marked GAB that was found about 2 years ago. Frank wrote an entire book on the GAB and didn't even find an L/10 marked GAB, so these are quite rare to say the least.
Then we find this CCC. The cut out arms of the swastika WAS mass produced, just look at the Deschler line of CCCs. All had their swastika and central motif painstakingly filed out. Unless all these Deschler CCCs are fakes in your opinion. How do you discount all the empirical evidence I laid out in the CCC book pointing these CCCs to Deschler?
Now, someone has found and EK1 spange with sawmarks on it. No other EK spange that I know of has had any hand filing on it, so it is unique and UNQUESTIONABLY made by Deschler.
All these little puzzle pieces are not much on their own, but taken together, they all point convincingly to Deschler. Do you think they produced some of these things post-war to try and get into scamming the collectors market?
And finally, I will throw in the typical "if the GAB and CCC planchet are fakes, how come we haven't seen more of them"? Also "if its fake, why would they take the time trim out the swastika", etc. etc. etc...
We may never know the final answer to this puzzle, but I can definately say after 15+ years of studying the CCC (and writing a book on them) that I have NEVER seen something like this and I would hazzard a guess that I will never see another one like it.
TomIf it doesn't have a hinge and catch, I'm not interested......well, maybe a littleNew Book - The German Close Combat Clasp of World War II
[/SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Available Now - tmdurante@gmail.com
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I believe Bob Hritz has one of these PABs, completely finished. Planchets do surface from time to time on dealer sites. I'm sure since we are talking about them we shall see more soon. The GAB and ccc look rough to me, that's all. The Rocky PAB has saw marks too and I don't like those either if that helps. At the end of the day we all have to decide what we are comfortable with. As for hand filing on spanges....pseudo-expertComment
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Hi Don,
I should have been more clear on the "file marks". I am not talking about filing the edges, I am talking about saw marks that actually cut out part of the metal to form the obverse contours. Two totally different things.
Regarding the Rocky PAB, I think these are attributed to Deschler too somehow. Not sure exactly as we don't have all the pieces, but I think in the years to come a connection to Deschler will strengthen. If you don't think these are original, well that is a different problem all together. I have never really studied these in depth and respect your opinion, but Robert, Frank and Phil all liked them, so I tend to think these guys know a lot about PABs too.
I think Mike Pinkus also had one of these finished PABs and if Bob also has one, that makes them rare as hell, but they exist in final form. Well, we also have the CCC in final form, just look at the Deschler CCC. This planchet and the Deschler CCCs are the ONLY ones to have had the swastika and central motif cut out. And as far as the GAB goes, one in complete form has also been found. When I get home tonight, I will post the pics. It was marked with an L/10 on the reverse pin (just like Deschler IABs are) and in addition, the hardware was a perfect match to what we see on Deschler IABs.
Finally, you cannot discount that the PAB and GAB planchets being found together carries some weight.
We can go back and forth on this all day, but in my opinion, all the different pieces of evidence somehow fit into a larger picture with Deschler. Without a bit more evidence, I think we will be in a deadlock. I can understand your skepticism Don, I think we all know that anything is possible in this hobby and the crooks in it. These may all turn out to be garbage and part of a big, well laid out reproduction conspiracy.
TomIf it doesn't have a hinge and catch, I'm not interested......well, maybe a littleNew Book - The German Close Combat Clasp of World War II
[/SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Available Now - tmdurante@gmail.com
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I'll keep an open mind Tom. Who knows what will turn up. Perhaps these will be found with a Hindy Cross with the AS Triangle mark on it.pseudo-expertComment
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