Hobacher PAB variants

[Don D.]

Either option is possible right now. How do we determine which one it is? One option would be chemical analysis of the finish. If they are different then that would mean different lots. If they are the same then it would mean they were done at the same time....

[Frank Heukemes]

Dear Philippe,

You do not have to add makers to make the Vienna maker conglomerate theory (or let`s better call it the recollection of Friedrich Orths's son) function. Makers that we already have identified (such as Souval, Orth, Hobacher) could have been part of it. This could have happened in parallel to their regular firm production, partly in parallel or subsequently, considering that none of the ******220;******220; badges seem to be "early."

Anyway, we had all these discussions before and found out that we will never be sure unless we find more puzzle pieces.

[Philippe DB]

Dear Frank,

I suppose that you have a point there. Only problem than would be that only the unknown üü maker would have used this mm and not another member of the conglomorate.

Do I see this correct?

KR
Philippe

[Frank Heukemes]

Dear Philippe,

Why? All these makers could have produced (in association, together, in ONE production facility) the ******220;******220; badges. Whether this happened in parallel to their OWN production or subsequently is to be debated. One could argue that we know at least of Souval that he has produced his own, marked examples to the end of the war, but then again, Souval does not necessarily have to be a member of this conglomerate.
All we know (by the recollection of Orth's son, who claims to have seen the ******220;******220; stamp in the workshop of his father and recalls the Stammtisch of the comglomerate members) is that Orth was part of that group. The other makers could even have been smaller Vienna makers. There have been enough in Vienna, many more than what we see on our lists. It was one of the jewelry/gold-/silversmith capitals of Europe.

[Philippe DB]

Dear Frank,

OK what your saying is that at first we had different makers using the design both known and unknown and at a certain moment some of them decided to join forces and re-group their production under the üü logo, sharing costs and benefits.

This indeed could make sense and at the same time explain why there isn't any shortage in üü marked PAB's GAB and IAB's. The fact that even today they often can be found in mint condition could be an indication that they were produced untill the end of the war and large surplus stocks found their way to the collector market.

KR
Philippe

[skip]

I think these badges were made at the same time, at least they were finished at the same time, as theres no difference when viewing them from the front.
The only difference is the setup

Skip

.

[Don D.]

Thanks Skip.