Interested in tackling the GB numbered PAB's?

[Philippe DB]

Dear Robert,

My advise would be to wait untill this evening.

I think I cracked to code and will stick my neck out by saying that without being able to see the detailing on Stans badge it will be a 100% match in the accorn areas to the one I'm going to post this evening.

If this is the case the pieces for me are falling in to place and it is my opion that there is more then one original numbered GB PAB type arround.

I'll provide you guys with all the info needed to reach the same conclusion but I won't give you the answers.

KR
Philippe

[robert60446]

I think I cracked to code and will stick my neck out by saying that without being able to see the detailing on Stans badge it will be a 100% match in the accorn areas to the one I'm going to post this evening.

Dear Phil,
I agree. Also, at this point i would still like to see nice hardware pictures of Stan's badge. IMO this would be valuable addition to what we already got here.

[robert60446]

Hi guys,
One thing, please check this picture it is detail from under the right side rivet. On first posted by Phil PAB it looks like small piece of material is missing, the same goes to Skip’s badge, then on Don’s badge it looks like piece is not missing, but it is “extra” addition to that area, then on Phil’s PAB 25 it looks like material is missing again and then on Skipper badge this area is just flat. Unfortunately forum picture size limitation is taking a toll here but I hope that everyone can see what I’m talking about here. As a bonus we can compare rivets types as well.

[Bob Hritz]

I would like to see the measurements on all the 4 types, in comparison.

I, too, am waiting for the information and any 'time line' of authentic to post-war.

Bob Hritz

ps: I am looking for a small, portable digital scale that will measure grams to the hundreth, ie: 15.48 gr. What is the most reliable and compact, with a table large enough for badges and medals, but compact enough to carry to shows, etc? Please PM me, and don't tie uo the thread with this information.

[Stan]

Panzer Assault 50 GB

Guys,

I cannot post more detailed pics today but will do so tomorrow morning.

Stan

[Don D.]

I'd like to see a diagram superimposed on a badge of where you want the measurements taken so we can all measure the same.

[Don D.]

Hi guys,
One thing, please check this picture it is detail from under the right side rivet. On first posted by Phil PAB it looks like small piece of material is missing, the same goes to Skip’s badge, then on Don’s badge it looks like piece is not missing, but it is “extra” addition to that area, then on Phil’s PAB 25 it looks like material is missing again and then on Skipper badge this area is just flat. Unfortunately forum picture size limitation is taking a toll here but I hope that everyone can see what I’m talking about here. As a bonus we can compare rivets types as well.

Actually Robert, it is a ledge formed from a die feature.

[Don D.]

@Don, not shure if your badge fits in to one of the above categories, based upon the close up of the accorns I can't see any pattern.


Philippe

Phil, most of them have dots but they are hard to see because of the finish.

[Philippe DB]

I'd like to see a diagram superimposed on a badge of where you want the measurements taken so we can all measure the same.

Hi Don,

Does this help

Red= height and width including panzer
Green = wreath width

KR
Philippe

[Bob Hritz]

Don,

I have no program for a diagram.

For the height measurement, I placed the flat portion of the number box, on one arm, and the top of eagles head on the other.

For width without tank, I placed the calipers on the widest part of the badge, locked them in place, and checked to see if there was any wider area. When I found none, recorded the measurements.

For width with tank I repeated the same as for width without tank.

I had to lock the calipers and do it several times to make sure that I had found the widest part, for each measurement.

I know this is less than scientific perfection, and I am sure that if I did it again today, I may read a hundreth or two hundreths of a millimeter different. This is due to human error, so I tried to make the calipers as tight as possible to get the most accurate measurement, against the badges, without applying too much pressure.

This is why I want a digital scale that weighs up to 100 grams to the hundreth of a gram. I watched 3 collectors weigh the same Pour le' Merite and get 3 substancially different weights, to the span of 3.4 grams +/-.

Bob Hritz

[Don D.]

ht= 61.3mm
width=46.5mm
wreath=44.9mm
wt= 25.6 gms

[Don D.]

I would think we might want measurements of some of the features, ie swaz, eagle ht, tank ht/width etc since there was some hand finishing done to the wreaths.

[Philippe DB]

Hi Guys,

OK if you thought this was complicated here is the next one.

I think my earlier reaction was a bit premature. In the meantime I noticed something in comparing my 25 to the 50 I'm going to post now. The time line of the variation in the accorn patterns isn't consistent and this prevents me from already reaching a defenitive conclusion.

The problem we need to tackle if we want to proof that there indeed are other original GB badges apart from type I is quite simple: We need to be able to follow the evolution from dotted to crosshatching. Once crosshatching applied there is no way back to the dots.

By now we know that cross hatching co-exits with dotting. If all badges with cross hatching are fakes something just doesn't make sense and that it the fact that we're not able to find TWO badges that MATCH PERFECTLY. So who was responsible for this variation the fakers or GB. For the both of the this variation doesn't make much sense because it's not somthing we know from other originals or fakes. Certainly not to this extend

However what I'm going to post right now will be interesting for the following reason:

Will the cross patterns be a 100% match or won't they??????????

Earlier on I was confident that they would match but I'm not so sure anymore.

If they match we only have to detirmine if this is a fake or an original.

If they don't we have to answer the above question but also explain why fakes made by the same people show a different accorn pattern
That IMO would be very difficult because we don't expect fakers to constantly rework their dies or do we.

Just one more thing, don't forget that we're only scratching the surface of the GB mess the easy fakes weren't even posted in this thread.

So here you go

[Philippe DB]

reverse 50

[Philippe DB]

claw detailing/ notice the bordeaux/red finish residue. This will become important later