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**Bob Hritz** · 07-02-2006, 02:46 PM

Tool mark on top of catch on my Bronze badge.

If you can see through the zinc pest, you will notice the dot (period) behind the B is almost non-existant. You have to strain to see it with a 5 power loupe.

Bob Hritz

Attached Files

MVC-024S.JPG (43.4 KB, 317 views)

**robert60446** · 07-02-2006, 02:52 PM

Great, thanks for posting these Bob!...

**Bob Hritz** · 07-02-2006, 02:57 PM

I had to trick the computer, on the camera, and take a better photo of the upper pin. There is an upper vertical depression and a lower horizontal depression.

Bob Hritz

Attached Files

MVC-023S.JPG (48.5 KB, 320 views)

**Bob Hritz** · 07-02-2006, 03:08 PM

Robert,

Yes, the pin and catch marks are nearly identical to my Type 1 in silver, but this badge is the bronze with the deeply crosshatched acorns, which is slightly different to the standard type 1.

The overall dimentions are slightly smaller, about 1mm, and there is much more filing around the edges of the entire badge. The shear marks are very visible, where filing was weakly done, or omitted.

I have to think there are two (or more) dies for the GB numbered badges, or there was post-war manufacturing, not counting the out-and out-obvious fakes that abound.

I surely hope there is a definative answer. With yourself, Frank and Philippe, I would think a scientific answer is most probable.

By the way, buying something from a vet, even in the 1970's, does not asure authenticity. Many vets were happy to show their spoils, even those not for sale. I have seen honest vets who have had rare articles switched for fakes, by unscrupulous collectors or dealers.

I am willing to accept the scientific findings and am ready to accept that I may have to continue my search for the 'standard' Type 1 bronze numbered PAB, should these deeply crosshatched acorn versions become suspicious beyond explanation.

Bob Hritz

**robert60446** · 07-02-2006, 03:16 PM

Bob,
One more thing, could you please take one more side view picture of the catch?

**Philippe DB** · 07-02-2006, 03:19 PM

Thanks Bob,

I agree the pin mark is nearly identical but not a perfect match, the little dot of metal sitting in the deepest area to the left between the two flattened spots (cfr. post 6), doesn't seem to be there. However would love to look at that mark under magnification because somehow I'm inclined to believe that it could be made by the same tool.

If this is indeed the case this would link both the "dotted" type I and your crosshatched badge together. This would be a very significant step because it would proof that both badges are original.

Bob I know it might be painfull to the old eyes but how do your cross hatch patterns compare to the once I posted in the three areas we're looking at?

Based upon what I have on file there are much more crosshatch badges arround then dotted types so I can only wonder why we don't get to see more of them in this thread

KR
Philippe

**robert60446** · 07-02-2006, 03:24 PM

Originally posted by Philippe DB

I agree the pin mark is nearly identical but not a perfect match, the little dot of metal sitting in the deepest area to the left between the two flattened spots (cfr. post 6), doesn't seem to be there.

I believe this is “dot” about which Phil is talking about. Can you see it Bob at your pin?

**Philippe DB** · 07-02-2006, 03:28 PM

Originally posted by Bob Hritz

The overall dimentions are slightly smaller, about 1mm, and there is much more filing around the edges of the entire badge. The shear marks are very visible, where filing was weakly done, or omitted.

Bob Hritz

I agree on the filing marks they are much more present on the second badge I posted then on type I, certainly arround the outside rim.

Bob you say the bronze 50 is smaller but when I look at the measurements Robert posted the width of the 50's wreath excluding the panzer is slightly larger then your type I. That's why I asked if you could double check the width on type I.

KR
Philippe

**Philippe DB** · 07-02-2006, 03:43 PM

Hi Guys,

For what its worth and just as general information. Giel pointed me to Winklers archives, in there he found one silver 25 and 2 silver 50 GB's.

All are type ones, even on the small pics of the 50's the tool marks on the pins are clearly visible.

KR
Philippe

**Bob Hritz** · 07-02-2006, 03:52 PM

I have just remeasured the badges with my new MITUTOYO digital caliper. Looks like I mismeasured with my old and worn caliper, but the bronze is still slightly smaller.

The pin marks are very difficult for me to see and describe, but the vertical mark has a 'dot' or indentation, similar to the pne Philippe posted.

Silver: Height 62.17 mm
Wreath width 46.00 mm
Overall width 47.91 mm

Bronze: Height 61.21 mm
Wreath width: 44.90 mm
Overall width 46.35 mm

Bob Hritz

ps: alsp attached is a photo of the bag for the Silver. I have the bag for the Bronze, here somewhere, but it was damaged from the badge tearing through in places. The bags are very sturdy pulp paper and each has the impressions of the badges onto the paper.

Attached Files

MVC-024S.JPG (52.0 KB, 316 views)

**Bob Hritz** · 07-02-2006, 03:55 PM

Maker on bag for 50 PAB

Bob Hritz

Attached Files

MVC-025S.JPG (88.5 KB, 321 views)

**Philippe DB** · 07-02-2006, 04:03 PM

Txs Bob, your measurements make more sense now.

How about the cross hatching compare is that feasible for you or is your head about to explode

If it's to difficult maybe you can give it a try with your camera, that way we can all have a look.

KR
Philippe

**Bob Hritz** · 07-02-2006, 04:09 PM

Robert:

Here is a profile shot of the catches. The Bronze is to the LEFT and has a slightly larger catch which is formed in the same basic 'swuarish' shape as the solver. Wire for the 2 catches appear to both be buntmetal and held the finish rather nicely.

Philippe,

My camera is not so fine as Robert's. Are not the close up shots of the acorn crosshatching I posted clear enough? Don't worry about my head exploding, it is either this or my wife will have me doing yard work!!!

Bob Hritz

Attached Files

MVC-022S.JPG (95.9 KB, 319 views)

**Bob Hritz** · 07-02-2006, 04:11 PM

Catch detail for Robert.

Bronze to the LEFT Silver to the RIGHT

Bob Hritz

Attached Files

MVC-028S.JPG (33.4 KB, 320 views)

**Philippe DB** · 07-02-2006, 04:47 PM

Ok Bob based upon that picture, this is what I see compared to the same accorns I posted in posts 97/98

The crosshatching on the top accorn is different from mine. The lower accorn seems to be missing a piece of the cup and shows a "dotted" pattern just like mine.

When looking at your accorns to the left of the number box I see the dotted pattern en no crosshatching.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

KR
Philippe

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