PAB- opinions

[robert60446]

Dear Phil,
You know that my main problem with this type of Daisies is this weak spot between the headlights on the right side. I placed on the same image picture from my silver daisy to compare (the same area). Please check how sharp and deeply detailed area on my badge is and compare it to the badge posted by Martin or you (in post#13). So there is not only the problem with the “soft – messy” reverse, but also obverse isn’t that perfect at all…
Of course I don’t have enough ammo in my gun to shoot this Daisy down, but there are many other examples of this PAB on the market up for sale (which are widely accepted), so I don’t see any reason why to buy this “variant”…

[upbeek]

1

asuming the badge is original (which imo is fake)why would the reverse be messy and the front be sort of ok?
there are no reason why the die for the reverse should wear like that,
ill keep trying to do the artwork for my pics, and tomorrow i will take some pics of the original version of this badge
chay

[Dennis GT]

Real

I think this one is OK. The pictures and the shallows play tricks on our eyes. I have Daises in my collection. None look just like this one on the back, but still very close. The metal color is off because of the flash. I have a fake one with very soft details. You would never confuse the two at this level of collecting.
I can post a picture if you like but it is way to obvious.

Question Why would anyone go to this much trouble to fake a PAB twenty years ago with this much detail when you could get a real one for less that thirty US dollars?

Dennis GT

[Levesque]

Hi Guys,
Well here's my bronze Daisy that I purchased from a Forum member three years ago that features the same reverse as Martin's badge and Toby's. It may even be the same badge as Toby's although I'm not positive. Measures 61mm by 42mm and weights 27.4 grams and original IMO.
Dan

[Levesque]

and the reverse...same stain marks around the hinge and catch as Toby's badge.

[Philippe DB]

Hi Dan

Well the badge you posted indeed is the exact same badge as the one from Toby I posted . Seems it had quite a hard time and lost a lot of it's finish over these last years.

I would very much like to hold it in my hands so we can settle the confusion surrounding these Daisies once and for all.

KR
Philippe

[robert60446]

Question Why would anyone go to this much trouble to fake a PAB twenty years ago with this much detail when you could get a real one for less that thirty US dollars?

Dennis,
This is totally wrong question. First fakes of almost every badge or award were made 5 minutes after the fall of the III Reich...

[upbeek]

1

areas that look to me like this piece has been cast fron an original,

[Levesque]

This is the condition the badge was in when I received it Philippe I guess we know why Toby sold the poor thing. Just goes to show that storing these badges in the wrong environment can ruin the finish.
Dan

[mdj]

well i am a noob and dont know anything about PAB's... But this seller isnt the one who tells fairytale storys... why should he, when he's selling/auctioning also antique porcelan, clocks, books, cabinets and so on which has nothing to do with III Reich.....It aint a fixed price so it could be auctioneerd for 1 or 100 EUR.
The badge belongs to the uniform, according to the auctioneer.

What I notice these days is that we always depend on relatively small or less information about whats commenly known to us. If something is odd or doesnt fit in known examples, we assume it would / could probally a fake/reproduction. I think we have to be more aware about circumstances / facts about some items before drawing conclusions...

so excuse me for this opinion generally, especially because I dont have expertise on PABS.

martin

[Don D.]

If something is odd or doesnt fit in known examples, we assume it would / could probally a fake/reproduction. I think we have to be more aware about circumstances / facts about some items before drawing conclusions...

martin

You need to know the #1 rule of collecting TR, "Buy the item, not the story." Dealers and other folks lie, including vets and their families. If you don't base your decisions on the merits of the item you will end up with hurt feelings alot.

[Philippe DB]

Well Dan is so kind to send me his PAB, which matches the PAB that started this thread, for closer examination.

As soon as it arrives and compared it to the accepted Daisy variants in my collection I'll share my findings.

KR
Philippe

[robert60446]

...

[Philippe DB]

Hi Guys,

Yesterday Dan's Daisy arrived and as far as I'm concerned it's 100% original.

I don't know what could have caused the messy looking reverse that we also see on the badge that started this thread but apart from that this badge confirms with its "normal" brothers.

The hinge and pin show the exact same pincer marks as the two badges I compared it with. The catchplate is a bit smaller but the catch itself also features the same marks that can be found on my examples. I'll see if I can make some pictures of those details over the WE.

Of course the measurements are just fine too

-------SILVER-- DAN-- BRONZE
Weight 28,00 - 27,50 - 27,90 grs
Height 60,98 - 61,01 - 61,04 mm
Width 41,72 - 41,65 - 41,63 mm

KR
Philippe

[Philippe DB]

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