Panzer Lanyard...

[Philippe DB]

1 o

[Philippe DB]

1 r

[Philippe DB]

9 with 15 cord twists

[Philippe DB]

9 .....

[Philippe DB]

9 obv.

[Philippe DB]

9 obv. 2

[Indy]

wow.....

this is good . Thanks for showing these, Philippe.

[Philippe DB]

9 rev.

[robert60446]

So is Robert's lanyard a fake? After comparing his cord with the cord on my examples I admit that it is different especialy the knots seem to be rather plain constructions compared to what I see on mine. On the other hand who can tell for sure which type of cords were used on these Lanyards. Were the all the same or were different companies involved in their production resulting in variants? I really would know and ask myself the same question when it comes to the emblems.

Dear Philippe,
for me this was the biggest blow... it is exactly the same knots construction and layout as on my Lanyard. You can get them in any color you want for 15 Euro…

[robert60446]

One more example...(25 Euro)...

[Philippe DB]

Dear Robert,

I agree based upon the pics you posted they look like a match but then again my question remains: is there only one accepted style? And what about the emblem and the shells on your lanyard?

Like Tim wrote is this a "put together" lanyard or all all components copies. Without an original to compare things to this remains, at least for me, an impossible question to answer.

In fact when it comes to my two examples I have to admit that I bought these on pure gut feeling. Trying to use the knowledge I have on badge and construction techniques and forming an opinion based on wear traces. If anybody told me tomorrow that both of them are fakes I wouldn't have much arguments at hand to defend them.

KR
Philippe

[robert60446]

And what about the emblem and the shells on your lanyard?

Dear Philippe,
I got picture of the 10th grade Lanyard from Tim. The top Bullet is from the 10th grade and a lower picture is from my Lanyard...these 2 bullets look different to me...So the question is: which different “bullet” styles are accepted as original? How many different styles exist?...

[Philippe DB]

Dear Robert,

Interesting compare. Again I have no Lanyard with bullets so no reference material here.

However IMO you design is the same as Tim's. What is different is the material they are made of. Tim's looks like high quality metal while yours reminds my of aluminium. In this respect Tim's bullet looks better in every respect but as you wrote are variants in material acceptable or aren't they

Any more Panzer Lanyard bullets out there?

KR
Philippe

[Tim Curley]

Philippe, you are correct in that as far as I have been able to determine, there has been no detailed study of Army Marksmanship Lanyards. There must be original documentation floating around but no one appears to have surfaced it and analysed it. When I first thought about buying the higher grades (9-12), I had a real problem finding references/examples to guide me in what to look for. Over the years I have had to return examples that in my opinion just were not correct; that is, postwar lanyards with period badges added, lanyards with incorrect knots, correct badges added to lower grade lanyards, etc.

Based upon all these years of searching for information, handling a lot of lanyards and the 25 in my collection, I would not hesitate to purchase Philippe's first lanyard. The second lanyard I would not buy. Why? It strongly reminds me of the 3 I saw at the last SOS, all on one table, offered by 2 young europeans. After looking the lanyards over carefully, my conclusion was all 3 were made up with postwar lanyards and recently "gold-plated" Grade 5-8 badges - "up grading" the badges!! Exactly as on Philippe's example, they all had the same silver-grey lining on the back of the cords. Note how the material has "lines" going length wise whereas I have always seen the backing material with "lines" going sideways. Also note Philippe's lanyard has 16 twists to the cord whereas I look to see only 14.

I do not have documentation to back up my conclusions but I do have some sad experiences to guide me. This area of our collecting definately needs clarification.

As to the question concerning the shells on lanyards, I think there were different makers and one will find small variations in size, style and materials/finishes.

[Philippe DB]

Hi Tim,

Thanks for your input much appreciated. The number of twists on the grade 9 indeed is different from the grade 1 and depending on how you count them has 15 on the outside and 16 on the inside.

I see what you mean by the "line pattern" in the backing. I'll check out my heer lanyards tonight to see how their patterns are going. however if this line pattern is an indication of a copie then Jeff's example posted by Robert would also be a copie wouldn't you agree?

Tim concerning the color of my grade 9, what you see is the color of the buntmetall, there is no actual finish on the emblem. How does this compare to your grade 9 (would love to see some scans/pics). Based upon what we know from badges wouldn't it be logical that the material used to make these emblems followed the same evolution from high quality buntmetal/aluminium to zinc as other badges did?

KR
Philippe