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    #1

    Deschler made PAB & GAB's

    Hi Guys,

    Well I thought this deserved a special thread.

    Most of you probably saw Bob's L/10 marked flatback in this recent thread

    http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=129096

    Since we only ever have encountered this one L/10 marked flatback there wasn't enough evidence to attribute them with certainty to Deschler.

    However thanks to our insomniac PAB collector with his restless mind and huge camera, Robert, I think we where able to bring some more evidence together that allows us to link both the flatback PAB and the flatback GAB (unknown maker number 8) to Deschler.

    I now will post a series of pictures that IMO leave not much room for doubt.

    First the picture that I found in my mailbox this morning. Robert was facinated by a strange pattern of scratches left by the tool that bend the hinge on Bob's L/10 marked flatback PAB.
    Attached Files
    Last edited by Philippe DB; 11-20-2005, 05:37 AM.
    Tags: None
    #2
    He asked me to take a look at my L/10 marked IAB to see if I could discover the same marks.

    Since L/10 IAb's feature a different hinge my expectations weren't very high but after taking a closer look I found the exact same scratch pattern be it on the hinge outside and not on the hinge inside. Since these type of hinges can be used upside down this however can't be a problem.

    Here is the L/10 IAB hinge. My camera isn't as good as Robert's but I think they are very clearly visible.
    Attached Files
    Last edited by Philippe DB; 11-20-2005, 05:38 AM.

    Comment

      #3
      To make absolutely sure that this wasn't a mark left by a hinge supplier I checked all my Porsche hinges which are identical to this L/10 IAB hinge but non of them show's these or any other kind of mark.

      Also on other hinges I wasn't able to find a similar set of marks apart then from the Hinge of the unknown maker 8 GAB featured in Franks book on page 279. Although the pic isn't that good you can clearly see 3 set op lines running down on the left side of the hinge. Frank maybe you have better pics in your files that could confirm this.

      So far so good a set op unique bend marks on two L/10 marked badges but there is more.

      Another specific feature of flatback badges that I mentioned many times before are the typical angled running fille (polish) marks on these badges. Depending on the remaining finish they will be more or less visible.

      here you can see them on my flat back PAB
      Attached Files

      Comment

        #4
        The same marks can be found on flatback GAB but since I don't own such a badge I'm not able to post good pictures but for those of you who have Frank's book, the example posted on page 278 also shows them.

        And now for the good part.

        Although the L/10 IAB isn't a flatback, what ever they used to polish the reverse of the PAB and GAB they also used on the IAB leaving the same pattern as a result.
        Attached Files

        Comment

          #5
          One maker mark on one badge isn't enough to attribute a badge to a maker but taken in to account the further evidence we found in this case I'm willing to make an exception.

          As far as I'm concerned we found ourselfs a new confrimed PAB and GAB maker L/10 (1) Deschler und Sohn.

          Well the flatback for sure came a long way didn't it. From it's copy status it has rissen to become a PAB made by one of the most important manufactures of third reich awards

          KR
          Philippe

          PS: Special thanks to Robert who made this possible

          Comment

            #6
            Originally posted by Philippe DB
            To make absolutely sure that this wasn't a mark left by a hinge supplier I checked all my Porsche hinges which are identical to this L/10 IAB hinge but non of them show's these or any other kind of mark.

            Also on other hinges I wasn't able to find a similar set of marks apart then from the Hinge of the unknown maker 8 GAB featured in Franks book on page 279. Although the pic isn't that good you can clearly see 3 set op lines running down on the left side of the hinge. Frank maybe you have better pics in your files that could confirm this.
            Hi Philippe,

            the same hingemarks can be found on SH.u.Co IAB´s as well. I´ll try and get some shots of them when i can. All my IAB´s from SH.u.Co don´t have them though, probably due to what material was used and in what stage of the war.

            Below is a pic of my 5 stemmed Silver SH.u.Co
            Attached Files
            Regards
            Hans N

            Don´t throw away your fake WB´s! Get in touch with me.
            I collect them for reference purposes for the benefit of the hobby (for the right "fake" price of course).

            Comment

              #7
              So this could only mean one thing, the marks confirms that they comes from one Hardware supplier.

              Here is another hinge from a different SH.u.Co IAB. I haven´t checked them all yet.
              Attached Files
              Regards
              Hans N

              Don´t throw away your fake WB´s! Get in touch with me.
              I collect them for reference purposes for the benefit of the hobby (for the right "fake" price of course).

              Comment

                #8
                Hi Hans,

                Well in the meantime I'm going overall my IAB's and already found a few which also show marks but altough similar they don't match in the same way as the marks found on the L/10 PAB and the L/10 IAB that are very deep marks. And then ofcourse the marks on the hinge are only one out of three leads that made the link possible.

                KR
                Philippe

                Comment

                  #9
                  The marks on you second one indeed are deeper. I have two Shuco's one without any marks and one with very faint marks.

                  So it certainly is a possibility that these marks are supplier marks but then again the hinge pattern wasn't pattented because you won't find these marks on any of the later Porsche hinges that match the L/10 IAB hinge.

                  KR
                  Philippe

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Here is the hinge on the GAB Unk maker #8
                    Attached Files

                    Comment

                      #11
                      And the reverse
                      Attached Files

                      Comment

                        #12
                        reverse full pic
                        Attached Files

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Good morning guys!
                          Hans, as Philippe is pointing out, the hinge marks are just one link in this chain of proofs linking these flat backs straight to the Deschler. The typical angled running polish marks on these badges and L/10 maker mark combined with “bar code” on the hinge makes Mike’s PAB example bullet proof Deschler in my eyes. Too much coincidence to ignore this.
                          Below I’m posting better picture of the hinge marks from Mike’s PAB with maker mark L/10.
                          Last edited by robert60446; 04-07-2007, 06:29 AM.

                          Comment

                            #14
                            And polish marks from Mike’s PAB.
                            Last edited by robert60446; 04-07-2007, 06:29 AM.

                            Comment

                              #15
                              Tool marks are like fingerprints. If they match exactly they came from the same tool, if they don't then they came from different, though simular tools. Robert, can you use your powers to do a side by side (or top to bottom) comparision? GAB, PAB and SchuCo please.
                              thnks
                              Don
                              pseudo-expert

                              Comment

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