BSW Logo Pattern

[Okrach]

I'll just chime in....... as others have mentioned, SBWs were U.S. made repros, to the best of my knowledge. Interesting thread, never-the-less.

Regards,
Mark

'Words, words, words...'

Any proof?...

(...)I can't provide any evidence, but I heard once that the "SBW" marking (what you are calling "57") is a fake marking appplied to repros that came out of the US.

I am trying to find a concrete answer to this problem and such a way of explanation 'I heard once' is not satisfying me

Frank's explanation sounds OK but it means that he denies that it could be a unknown company which would use the SBW stamp... Can we deny such an option without having a proof that the SBW signed badges are TRUELY an US product?

What I see here is an interesting discussion but there are no FINAL statements YET.

[Grant Broadhurst]

1 - destroyed, damaged, lost in a mess of the post war months?


Yes that is a possibility , does anyone know for sure if BSW carried on as a buisness post 1945 are they still making badges today ?

4) - unfortunately true - does it mean ALL are originals?... how to treat them then?

Technically all 1957 pieces are legitimate ! however fakes of 1957 awards and WW2 fakes denazified to look like 1957 awards are starting to appear and are IMO not real 1957 awards.

5) no official regulations = everything is fake or everything is OK

I think that the early and mid production pieces are fine ok 1957 awards , it is when people start to buy the late poor quality awards that they need to take caution as it is difficult to tell a nastily produced fake 1957 award from a late shiny nasty legitimate award made for collectors .

I always try to buy early 1957 pieces due to the fact they are a lot better quality wise , chances are they have been made from wartime parts to wartime quality specs and they were the first run of 1957 awards and were made for the most part for the vets who actually won the award in WW2 .

I do buy the late collectors pieces and have some in my collection but only as space fillers until a get an early good quality piece .

PS. What is your point Grant? According to 1-3 it is most likely a fake, According to 4-5 it is a nice original then[/quote]

Regarding the para badge now i have seen close ups i would say IMO that it is a fake 1957 , it is just a personal gut feeling about the maker mark , cast badge as opposed to stamped and the oversize rivet heads really put me off .

[Grant Broadhurst]

I think if we find out if the BSW company existed after the war and if it made 1957 will go a long way in wrapping this problem up .

[Okrach]

I found this two nice pictures.... However no maker mark is visible but it remains me of something...

The eagle looks familiar doesn't it? However the badge has another hinge-pin-catch technique - the rest looks like a perfect match...

[Okrach]

reverse of this one- it has no MM...

[Okrach]

Frank, You may be interested...SBW and similar badges were discussed here more than a one time:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...7&highlight=57

is 57 SBW suddenly became a fake Am I the first to notice the different logo pattern

And another link...

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...7&highlight=57

I think, I will keep these badges until I will be 100% sure that SBW is not a possible manufacturer - it seems to me that this matter will not be solved too easly

[mmiller]

'Words, words, words...'

Any proof?...

Yep, your right, just words. And no proof whatsoever.

Some of us believe (and that is our preogative) that SBW is synonymous with a US faker who signed his work with that easlily distinguishable makermark.

I'm not attempting to proove or disproove anything with my mere opinion. It is an uniquely made badge, that I'll say. But with all the negative publicity that I have (only) been hearing since the early 80s, it's not one I'd want.

If you feel good about the badge, that's what's important. And if indisputable facts can be laid on the table, one way or the other, that's great.

Regards,
Mark

[Grant Broadhurst]

Hi Tomasz ,

I have never seen that kind of pin set up on a "real" 1957 badge , if i saw this one in a show i would pass it by as i think it,s a fake .

I have never handled a BSW badge so i have never paid these much attention until you brought the subject up !

Never say never we might find out later that these are "real" 1957 awards . I am really enjoying these discussions around 1957 awards as we with the help of other forum members might finally get to the bottom of a lot of grey area,s 1957 awards have .

One other thing that struck me did the wartime mark of BSW consist of a club shape like on the suite of cards ? and the SBW mark simply enclosed by a 3 circles shape ?

[Okrach]

Yep, your right, just words. And no proof whatsoever.

Some of us believe (and that is our preogative) that SBW is synonymous with a US faker who signed his work with that easlily distinguishable makermark.

I'm not attempting to proove or disproove anything with my mere opinion. It is an uniquely made badge, that I'll say. But with all the negative publicity that I have (only) been hearing since the early 80s, it's not one I'd want.

If you feel good about the badge, that's what's important. And if indisputable facts can be laid on the table, one way or the other, that's great.

Regards,
Mark

This is what I am after Mark 100% argument they are FAKES and I will gladly add the pics to the Fakes threads. 100% REAL I will gladly have it in my collection.

Now I don't know but I will do my private research about its mystery - for now on they will be treated as GOOD items since there is NO SINGLE proof but speculations they maybe not as such

IN THIS PLACE COMES MY APPEAL: ANYONE WHO HAS THE SBW MARKED 57 BADGES PLEASE CONTRIBUTE TO THIS THREAD!!! ONLY WITH OUR UNITED EFFORT WE MAY BE ABLE TO FIND THE TRUTH!!!

[Okrach]

One other thing that struck me did the wartime mark of BSW consist of a club shape like on the suite of cards ? and the SBW mark simply enclosed by a 3 circles shape ?

This is what I found in Austria

[Grant Broadhurst]

So all wartime BSW marks had a "stem" like a leaf ?

[Okrach]

Hi,

I know I am stubborn but all I want is the proof<!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shapetype id="_x0000_t75" coordsize="21600,21600" o:spt="75" oreferrelative="t" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" filled="f" stroked="f"> <v:stroke joinstyle="miter"/> <v:formulas> <v:f eqn="if lineDrawn pixelLineWidth 0"/> <v:f eqn="sum @0 1 0"/> <v:f eqn="sum 0 0 @1"/> <v:f eqn="prod @2 1 2"/> <v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelWidth"/> <v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelHeight"/> <v:f eqn="sum @0 0 1"/> <v:f eqn="prod @6 1 2"/> <v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelWidth"/> <v:f eqn="sum @8 21600 0"/> <v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelHeight"/> <v:f eqn="sum @10 21600 0"/> </v:formulas> <vath o:extrusionok="f" gradientshapeok="t" o:connecttype="rect"/> <o:lock v:ext="edit" aspectratio="t"/> </v:shapetype><v:shape id="_x0000_i1025" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style='width:11.25pt; height:12pt'> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:\DOCUME~1\TOMASZ~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\msohtml1\01\cli p_image001.gif" o:href="http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/images/smilies/angel4.gif"/> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]--><!--[endif]--><!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape id="_x0000_i1026" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style='width:12.75pt;height:15pt'> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:\DOCUME~1\TOMASZ~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\msohtml1\01\cli p_image002.gif" o:href="http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/images/smilies/1shhh.gif"/> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]--><!--[endif]-->

I have been thinking about this BSW/SBW maker mark. And the same idea as You Grant came to my mind<!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape id="_x0000_i1027" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style='width:17.25pt;height:13.5pt'> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:\DOCUME~1\TOMASZ~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\msohtml1\01\cli p_image003.gif" o:href="http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/images/smilies/.gif"/> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]--><!--[endif]-->

Maybe You would be a little bit shocked but I came to a conclusion:

If there is NO SINGLE example of the BSW (Gebr******252;der Schneider, Wien) which shows the three circles shapes logo (not an oak leaf shape) - it means that the letters in circles are not pretending to be BSW product.

Let's have a look at the picture I posted above - even the fakers are trying to fake the original BSW oak leaf shaped stamp - if a faker would do his effort to copy the BSW stamp would he do TWO mistakes at one time??? (wrong letter pattern and wrong shape) - I really doubt it.

If the fakers are trying to copy the other stamps why to try to introduce a totally new stamp EVERY COLLECTOR would easly recognise??? It makes no sense<!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape id="_x0000_i1028" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style='width:11.25pt;height:11.25pt'> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:\DOCUME~1\TOMASZ~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\msohtml1\01\cli p_image004.gif" o:href="http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/images/smilies/nono.gif"/> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]--><!--[endif]-->

The SBW stamp comes from ANOTHER maker!!!

[mmiller]

Hi Tomasz,

Boy, you are persistant! I have some replys for you..... Not personal, just rhetorical.

Hi,

".... if a faker would do his effort to copy the BSW stamp would he do TWO mistakes at one time??? (wrong letter pattern and wrong shape) - I really doubt it.

Sure, why not! Bear in mind, these SBWs were made in the 80s. The repros back then were nowhere near as good as they are today. They were crude by today's standards. As I mentioned earlier, the guy who made these things obviously was not trying to 'copy' a BSW, or he would have. He wasn't trying to sell this badge to the experienced collector. The SBW was his joke of the copy. Anyone who knew their stuff would easily recognize the badge as a copy and stay away from it. And it makes sense that if he needed to insert his new SBW letters into the 'cloverleaf pattern' he would need a new design altogether. Much easier to create three new circles with the new letters than a (an existing or new) cloverleaf, with the new letters inbedded in them.

If the fakers are trying to copy the other stamps why to try to introduce a totally new stamp EVERY COLLECTOR would easly recognise??? It makes no sense."

But as I mentioned above, only the experienced would know the ruse. The new kids going to their first 'gun show' would see the badge, see the SBW (sounds like and kind-of looks like BSW.... sounds remotely familier), see the low low price, and spend $50 for his new treasure. Remenber also, there was no internet, there was no immediate worldwide sharing of [fake] knowledge. Rip-off the new guy who has no expertise..... pure and simple. Back then, it took a long time for word to get around. Lots of fakes could be sold..... the damage could be done.



Best Regards,
Mark

[Okrach]

Hi Mark, THANKS for reply

Persistant... SOUNDS GOOD

[Phil Slack]

SBW is a britsh faker its his name , shaun something