Silver Hollow back PAB

[Don D.]

And just the hinge. Hope this helps.

Don

[Philippe DB]

Hi guys,


Thanks for posting this badge again Don. Is it just your pictures that make me think that the hinge cut-out is less pronounced on your badge?

Well over my first cup of coffee I came to realize that I completely overlooked some study material in my own collection. By now I have 14 variants of the Porsche PAB in my collection and forgot completely to have a look at number 15.

A denazified example I picked up last year. Normally I don't collect denazified badges but since it was a Nickel Silver Porsche for which they only asked €40 and taken in to account that this denazification has a kind of historical relevance I thought this was the badge to make an exception for.

Anyway it turns out that this badge (with a replacement pin) features the angled cut hinge and the buntmetal catch. For now I just post some scans of it and this evening I will start comparing every milimetre to see how it exactly differs from the "normal" examples

KR
Philippe

[Philippe DB]

eagle

[Philippe DB]

reverse

[Philippe DB]

And the mysterious hinge

[Steve Richard]

Hello Philippe,
my angled hinge "Porsche" is identical to yours,but missing it's pin and part of it's catch.I have felt that the hinge on these was angled in to secure a more level and secure attatchment on the eagles chest right between the two wings.This might be the trademark of a particular assembler within the makers shop,or simply an outside supplier of the hardware if all other things are equal.Am I right in thinking that most ,if not all of these have the same little reverse flaw ?I'll send a brief pm on this one.
Regards,
Steve

[Philippe DB]

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the PM and I'll check that die flaw out on other Porsches this evening.

Good thinking of your part in relation to the "angled cut". Makes sense to me and would also be something for which they had time for in the early days. An let there be no mistake these are very early badges. Quality wise this denazified specimen is by far the best of all my nickel silver examples.

Only this morning Skip suggested a similar explaination but there is one thing that keeps bugging me:

We know how the set-up evolution changed on these badges. I even have a Nickel silver and a buntmetall example in my collection that already feature the typical broad based wrap around hinges

So in light of the above how can we explain the existance of the angled cut hinge and the buntmetall catch on later zinkers . To me that doesn't make sense at all.

KR
Philippe

[Steve Richard]

Hi Phil
Frequently you will find new condition holsters made early war,and even pre-war in minty,and even unused condition(my firstcollecting love is mauser pocket pistols)Most believe that stocks accumulated in depot as holsters were manufactured,and the older stock was pushed to the back rather than a first in- first out issue.Perhaps a similar scenario is not so far fetched with these badges.The possibility of outside suppliers for some hardware(ie:hinges) still occurs to me.God knows no German manufacturer then or today would have been as wasteful to throw away perfectly good hardware when found in stock.Just thinking aloud,but sure would like to see some more inside information from manufactures
Best wishes,
Steve

[Philippe DB]

Hi Steve,


Again makes good sense and something similar did occure on the S&L PAB where all off a sudden the oval hinge used on early hollow buntmetall badges re-appears on late zinkers. But that was a broad based hinge very suitable for use on zinc.

Here we have a mini version of the normal hinge applied to a zinker. I know quite a few collectors who still beleive that it wasn't possible to solder hinges directly to zinc, hence the use of a hinge or catch plates on later badges.

Personaly I found enough evidence that proofs that this wasn't only possible but it was actualy done. So all things considered the left over stock scenario might very well be the correct one.

KR
Philippe

[Don D.]

Just reviewing this thread and this remark got me to thinking. We've also seen a flurry of hollow buntmetal Wursters too. Not to be paranoid but can anyone think of any other rare choice badges we've seen a lot of lately?


Don

I am curious why more and more of these with the weird hinge, finish and blurry detail suddenly pop up. It used to be very hard to find a "Porsche" PAB and if you found one, it was always the classic one in nickel silver, without a finish.

[Philippe DB]

Hi Don,

I think it's more you imagination running wild. How many new once were posted in the last months starting with your (bronze finish/patina?) example. I think no more then 3, our Italian friend, Tino's and Felix's. All of these indeed featured the angled cut hinge. Was this a coincidence, I don't think so we just never payed attention to that feature.

Furthermore you have to take in to account that the NS Porsche although a top quality PAB isn't really a rare PAB. All Panzer troops that participated in the Blitz most likely received that exact type. Not really my area but I'm sure there are peple able to give us an estimate concerning the number of Panzer soldier involved here.

And then ofcourse you have the hollow Bronze Wurster, together with the BH Mayer the most common of the hollow bronze PAB's. This also can be explained. Did you ever wonder why they only seem to exist in Bronze just as the early Porsches only exist in silver.

As far as I'm concerned Wurster most likely received the first order to produce the bronze grade after its introduction and in the beginning there was no need for them to make silver grades because the production of these badges was covered already by whoever was making the Porsche PAB at that time.

I can't proof the above but to me it makes sense.

KR
Philippe


KR
Philippe

[Bruce Simcox]

Here's some fuel......

......to the fire:

I think it's more you imagination running wild. How many new once were posted in the last months starting with your (bronze finish/patina?) example. I think no more then 3, our Italian friend, Tino's and Felix's. All of these indeed featured the angled cut hinge. Was this a coincidence, I don't think so we just never payed attention to that feature.

I'd say 4 new hollow-back, buntmetal, Wursters posted.

The link: http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=105381

The interesting thing about my bronze, hollow-back Wurster in the link is that it features a block hinge.

-------------------------

Bruce

[Philippe DB]

Hi Bruce,


In my answer I was refering to Porsche, not Wurster PAB's. For every early Porsche you will easely find 5 Wursters. Without a bout the most common of all early buntmetall Bronze PAB's but at the same time, at least for me, quality wise the best ever made.

The little block hinge is something all Wursters will share. They even managed to solder these directly on to their zinc production. Only the very last will be found with a wrap arround hinge but they will still feature the early "questionmark" shaped directly soldered on catch.

KR
Philippe

[Bruce Simcox]

Hi Phlippe......

......It seemed like you were referring to the Wurster PAB's having the angle-cut hinge. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

---------------------------

Bruce

[Don D.]

Aren't I a trouble-maker???
Don