Silver Hollow back PAB

[robert60446]

Ok Guys,
After new pictures posted by Felix, i give up. I will rest my case now. I have to admit that i was wrong with my opinions.

[robert60446]

For comparison...hey robert look how fat my grass looks..

Dear Scott,
Grass from your picture doesn't look "fat" to me at all...

[scott3000]

My picture was missing the red arrows

[VonLuger]

Scott your grass looks thin overall detail is crisp reverse has the extra material I would expect and has very good overall detail, this badge would not be in question...
to add support for what Roberts pointing out the thicker grass leaves and lack of detail of grass area(not oak leaves)..Look at the eagle, now the leg area between wings, this is a 'recessed' area see how 'thick' the line on either side of legs between wings, my example is very thin also, also example scott just posted..this goes with the badges other overall thickness of detail not looking as fine...
Maybe its just another die? or a deeper pressing?

[greg.hays]

Sorry about that Philippe, the older I get the more my mind loses it . It makes me prone to hyperbole I guess .

Dear Greg,

I don't think I ever wrote that the cut-out is present on 99% of the originals. based upon what have observed one out of two of the original early Nickel silver IAB's and PAB's badges seem to feature this cut-out. Sometimes very pronounced and sometime barely visible.

The same however is true for the type Felix posted with one difference here they are also are present on what I believe to be zinkers but again not on all of them.

So there really isn't much logic to be found in this certainly because I don't have a clue what the purpose of that cut-out could have been. On the other hand the fact that we see Felix's type also with and without it a strong indication that these are originals. Why would a faker bother with this feature. Either he based his copy on an original featuring it, or he didn't.

KR
Philippe

[Felix]

...

Me again!

Scott, nice badge you have and notice the pin! Youre bagde has been there too

Thanks Philippe for your inputs and advice. This case really prooves we all have to do our best to find out about the truth.

I have one theory why details can be different. My badge is quite thick compared to other hollow badges. I will be happy to compare weights in private PMs. We really shouldnt give the fakers all what they need.

I post my last photo of the small flaw detail as my last proof.
Please look at this thread;
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...6&page=1&pp=15

Exactly same flaw detail! ..and this cant be copied like this unless the real press tools are found. So Im pretty sure my badge is genuine. Im still worried about the New Fakes of the Porsche. Give away is definitely the pin. Unfortunately I see very good details and I even see the flaw. I cant see any details of the flaw though. So maybe close examination is needed.

Cheers,

Felix ***feeling better now***

P.s. I know of one very nice Porsche here in Sweden which I will try to grab...

[VonLuger]

...

[robert60446]

I post my last photo of the small flaw detail as my last proof.
Please look at this thread;
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...6&page=1&pp=15

Exactly same flaw detail! ..and this cant be copied like this unless the real press tools are found. So Im pretty sure my badge is genuine.

Felix,
Here is your die flaw on the well known fake...

[Philippe DB]

Hi Felix,

I would love the get the exact measurements, please send me a PM.

Felix trust me that flaw can be copied but it will loose some of its detailing.

Here is one badge I would like to share with all of you because this badge for me is a loose end and most likely the lead to older buntmetall Porsche PAB's fakes.

I saved these pic many years ago from this forum and really can't remember who might have posted them. I guess at that time I still was happy with my 3 PAB's.

What made me save these pics was a compare next to an original Assmann. As you all will see this buntmetall bronze Porsche is a lot smaller than the Assmann and although both PAB have different measurements the difference are so small that they wouldn't show in a direct compare.

This Porsche is highly suspect to me but untill now I never managed to get my hands on one of these badges. Based upon other badges I have on file, but can't share at this moment, I'm confident that this badge also features an angled cut hinge.

KR
Philippe

[Philippe DB]

reverse

[Felix]

Robert;

Yes I wrote about it but I dont see any details. I think Philippe can tell us more about this since he has examined this kind of fake in real life??

There is an option that they have found the original press tools. They have done this with SS belt bucles. This could explain the sharp pressings. However they might not be so sharp if we get better photos.

If they have to make a cast fake and use as template for new press tools they will loose some details for sure. Even if they correct it, it wont be an exact match.

Cheers,

Felix

[Philippe DB]

And the compare next to an original Assmann

[robert60446]

If they have to make a cast fake and use as template for new press tools they will loose some details for sure. Even if they correct it, it wont be an exact match.

Felix,
But this sword got 2 blades. Die flaws can progress or you can start seeing them in the early stages. In other words die flaw doesn’t have to be equal to the die flaw. Besides, fakers can always use “worn off” camouflage…All I’m trying to say is, that the badge could feature all the die flaws and still could be a fake…

[robert60446]

This Porsche is highly suspect to me but untill now I never managed to get my hands on one of these badges. Based upon other badges I have on file, but can't share at this moment, I'm confident that this badge also features an angled cut hinge.

Let's hope that owner of this badge will speak up...It will be for sure interesting addition to the mix...

[Felix]

Robert!

Thats true! I agree but I wrote that the most obvious give away was the pin! You can not judge an item on one fact alone! However several good points in the same direction gives you the most correct judgement! Its all about probability! Its called circumstantional evidence.

Obverse and reverse design.
Pin, hinge and catch
Finish (in this case old style nickel-silver)
Die flaws
Gut feeling
etc etc....

If you have provenace it is good.. but is also often use to mislead
Technical facts like weight and measurements.

If a lot of this parameters are saying the same and there are no really bad feautures...

And one have to understand that not everything is written in stone.. there are some variations but they have to be of the right kind......

Gone through above and the gut says OK; Then you got to have an original!

Cheers,

Felix