Super rare Luftschutz service medal 1. class with ribbon

[RKC]

Luftschutz Cross listed on E-Stand -

"Super rare Luftschutz service medal 1. class with ribbon ..1200."


I believe more photos of the outside edges of this Cross
should be shown as-well-as clear photos of the inside areas
of the "Pie Cuts".

From what I can see in the photos offered this Cross is a "molded"
piece with visible "seams" to show that it was molded instead of
machine-stamped.

These were quite prevalent in the mid-70s in our area of Ontario
in Canada.

Ron.

[Seigfried]

Luftschutz Cross listed on E-Stand -

"Super rare Luftschutz service medal 1. class with ribbon ..1200."

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=903770

A link so that members do not have to trawl through the sales stand...

As an aside - although I do not have an original in my possession to compare - this looks stamped to me, I don't see the seams? There are some dark vertical lines on one of the edges which would indicate a 'stamp' to me.

[Norm F]

I know nothing about these awards, but perhaps those more knowledgeable can chip in. It strikes me as rather like the zincers discussed in this thread:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=848999 but with some unusual surface flaws?

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

The stippling pattern on that zincer matches this L/16 marked Tombak version which interestingly also shows a surface flaw although in a different location. Perhaps S&L had some production inconsistencies?

[Norm F]

Another comparison to the L/16. Similar marks on the reverse from a grinding or buffing process.

[Norm F]

And here's a comparison to another "S&L-like" zincer that was posted previously by Giel. Again, similar buffing marks, and also a slight flaw reminiscent of that seen seen in the first one, so it appears there were some quality control issues in this type.

[Norm F]

Mind you, with S&L zinc production of war badges we're always left wondering if we're dealing with late wartime production vs. post-war processing of leftovers; I don't know if the same concerns apply to the Luftschutz.

So the next question is, does this margin look correct for wartime finishing? Doesn't look much like the margins in past threads like this one?

[Norm F]

(For completeness, the images from the sales thread that also show the ribbon.)

[Norm F]

Hm, here's something disturbing.

I know Antonio has said in the past that Souval used S&L's die for post-war production. Well, if you compare this medal to the L/58 marked Souval posted by Kenneth previously here, you can see the exact same surface flaws and dings.

This raises the possibility that the medal in question could be post-war Souval production.

[Norm F]

Here are two examples previously posted by Patrick here in 2014. He describes the first:

Attached images of my last original one that was grabbed out of the S&L factory stocks, it has a variant suspension loop that is perfectly round but look at quality of strike and finish for a zinc medal.

As you can see that one lacks any of the flaws of the Souval.

But he then posted the second example with the description:

whilst we are on the subject- here is a well documented version of the award in zinc- I have owned 3 of this version in the past- the easiest way to tell it is the flawing to the inner flanges of the cross arms

On that one, you can clearly see all of the same flaws as on the Souval (there are more flaws than just the ones I marked).

In my opinion, these can't both be wartime S&L badges -- one or the other.

[Antonio Scapini]

Here's a thread than can be of help for the classification of these medals:

http://wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/s...d.php?t=904569

About the medal posted here for discussion I have to say it is a hard piece to judge. As Norm perfectly pointed out, there are some flaws that are presents in postwar medals.
In my researches I found that Souval postwar medals have more flaws, including in the back side, but almost always they use a different finish on them.
I would say this one is a S&L production looking at the base metal and the finish, and at the missing back side Souval flaws. But of course all those die flaws are a red flag.
Anyway it is hard to say if it is wartime or not.
Btw, ribbon is a good one.

[Norm F]

Here's a zinc "4"-marked S&L with terrible finish (presumably late wartime or post-war finish?) that lacks any of the flaws. This, as well as the first badge posted by Patrick, suggests S&L's dies were not yet flawed in wartime.

[Gernika81]

Wow amazing work guys. I am the seller of the medal. If you need any other close up of any detail of the medal i would be very cooperative taking and posting them.

[Norm F]

Alex's unmarked example described as "later-made S&L/ possible barter-board sample" -- again no flaws.

[Norm F]

Here's the unmarked zincer that was found in a carton marked "L/1?" and came to be known as the Meybauer-type (a little premature perhaps...)

Interestingly, it shows signs of the "Souval flaws" although the plated gilding obscures the scratch marks on the lower margins of the flanges.