Spain medal, "blue division" of Russia!

[Ian Hulley]

Medal specifications:

32.44mm in diameter and the rim thickness of the medal is 1.94mm (measured at the six-o'clock position). The weight is 13.6 grams.

Mine (ring-marked '1') measures the same ... as near as I can with a tape measure ... sadly the battery's died in the scales

Ian

[Tom Yanacek]

I never measured my example from post #17 before today so here are the specs:

32.44mm in diameter and the rim thickness is 1.89mm (measured at the six o'clock position). The weight is 13.5 grams.

[Tom Yanacek]

Here is the data for the three examples I own, all on one page for ease of viewing:

Example #1: (shown originally in post #11)

32.42mm in diameter and the rim thickness is 1.91mm (measured at the six-o'clock position) The weight is 13.4 grams.

Example #2: (shown originally in post #17)

32.44mm in diameter and the rim thickness is 1.89mm (measured at the six o'clock position). The weight is 13.5 grams.

Example #3: (shown originally in post #19)

32.44mm in diameter and the rim thickness is 1.94mm (measured at the six-o'clock position). The weight is 13.6 grams.

All three of the medals are without a suspension ring marking. IMO they were made off the same tooling and are of the same manufacturer.

[Tom Yanacek]

Just to be clear, are all the medals shown in this thread thought to be original and just the ribbons questionable? Or are the medals thought to be questionable as well?

As far as I can tell from the photos, all of the medals pictured in this thread appear to be wartime originals; the only exception being the one that Antonio (Blue Division) shows in posts #39, 43, and 44. That one is definitely a fake and it is not made of the proper base material. The originals should be in zinc only. Of course, it is always better to examine the medals in hand and get measurements to be certain of originality.

So, yes! For the most part it is only the ribbons that are being called into question here. Original Spanish Blue Division Medals are out there and not really that difficult to find. But original German-made ribbons for these medals are very hard to find nowadays. It's kind of like the same thing that we see with Westwall Medals: zinc Westwall Medals are everywhere, but try to find original Westwall ribbon these days. So many of the Westwall Medals we see in the market these days have modern, replacement ribbons, especially those zinc examples we so frequently see paired with the Carl Poellath, Schrobenhausen packets. Almost all of those sets have fake ribbons.

Best regards,
Tom

[Tom Yanacek]

Antonio's picture from post #43 is excellent in showing something I mentioned earlier concerning the yellow stripe on the Spanish ribbon versus the German ribbon.

This is just a general guideline, though, and should not be considered absolute.

[Tom Yanacek]

Hi guys,

Here is another Spanish Blue Division Medal that I acquired yesterday. IMO opinion it is an unmarked Deschler and the ribbon is a German-made, wartime ribbon.

This example is 32.49mm in diameter and the rim thickness is 1.87mm, measured at the six-o'clock. The weight of this one is 12.3 grams.

This medal has a rough, sandpaper-like appearance due to the bubbling/deterioration of the finish and maybe even a bit Weißrost to the zinc base metal. The medal actually looks better in hand than in these pictures.

Best regards,
Tom

[Tom Yanacek]

Comparing my new acquisition (left) with Antonion's marked Deschler (right & originally shown in post #14) I noticed that these two medals share the same die flaws to the rim of the medal. The flaws are at the five, seven, and ten-o'clock positions. My example has only the beginnings of the flaw at the ten-o'clock position whereas the flaw on Antonio's medal is much more developed.

[Gregorio Torres]

Hi Tom
You´ve got a honest original. The ribbon is a pre-1945 too

[Antonio Scapini]

Good eye Tom!
You have found another nice piece!

[Thomas Durante]

Hi Tom

Great addition, and good eye on the die flaws tying it to Deschler

Tom

[Emeredato]

Hi Gents,
somebody threw that one on my desk. Ribbon looks good, medal alos but like to hear some more opinions.
Thanks
regards
Sascha

[Gregorio Torres]

All these silvered Spanish Blue Division medals were made a couple of years ago in Poland. Look around "SI" in the lettering "DIVISION" and you can find some evidence of casting
No originals has been found NEVER in other than laquered with the so called MITTELGOLD laque
Regards
Greg

[Emeredato]

OK, so a bad copy !
Thansk for the heads up !
Regards
Sascha

[Antonio Scapini]

Thanks Greg for your reply.
It would have probably fooled me too this medal...

[Tom Yanacek]

Hi Gents,
somebody threw that one on my desk. Ribbon looks good, medal alos but like to hear some more opinions.
Thanks
regards
Sascha

Hi Sascha,

I do like the ribbon on your example. It looks to me like a wartime, German-made ribbon. The suspension ring looks a bit small and I do have concerns about the medal. I tend to agree with Gregorio's opinion, although I am not quite as certain as he is. Would you be able to give us the diameter, rim thickness, and weight of your example?

Best regards,
Tom