Hi all,
What do you think about this Para Badge?
What do you think about this Para Badge?
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Hi!
Hardware is textbook Assmann Nr. 2 and ok IMHO.
But:
A dark grey/black coloring would be perfect for an Assmann zinc wreath in very good condition, also a bright golden finish of the eagle....but on your pics the coloring looks a little bit fishy (or better repainted). Can´t tell that for sure without hands on, so it´s just an opinion.Last edited by Niedersachsen; 11-13-2004, 07:09 PM. -
Actually the picture for the reverse is quite dark colored. If I scanned it .. it would show much lighter.Originally posted by NiedersachsenComment
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(Jonnie, Willi, Eric, does anybody besides me think it's remarkable how many of these beautiful mint late war Assmann para badges have become available in the last 12 months? Used to be you could go a long, long time between sightings of these.)Comment
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Your badge is ok, Darrell. In my experience, some had the eagle finished on both obverse and reverse, some just on the obverse like yours. So the finish could be ok. Gerd is right, it is hard to tell from the pics, but the badge itself is definitely ok.
An interesting fact to know is that this latest Assmann type could not have been made (and especially sold) before 1945. In January 45, for the first time Luftwaffe badges were allowed to be sold by LDO private purchase dealers. Before January 1945, no Luftwaffe badge could be bought in these stores. The only possibility to buy them then was directly at the "Verkaufsabteilung der Luftwaffe" in Berlin.
Assmann was not yet listed as a LDO licensed maker in late 1944. The "new" L/64 mark in connection with the new decree of January 1945 make it obvious that these badges have been made by Assmann for that new business opportunity. Another example would be the late war L/64 marked LW Flak badge by Assmann.Cheers, Frank
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Frank,
This type of badge was awarded as early as December 1943. If you look in Eric Queen's book "Red Shines The Sun" on page 171 he shows an identical example with the award document that was presented to Heinz Nikolas. I believe Eric got the badge and document directly from Mr. Nikolas. The badge is identical to Darrell's except it's not marked with the L/64 and contains only a number "1" just above the right rivet.
Hope this information is of some help.
John GarciaComment
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Hi,
Like the others, I think/know the badge is genuine. Chris' scepticism is imo well placed - refinishing IS an issue these days. Darrell, as Frank indicates, the finish may be OK. I'd suggest checking VERY carefully on the wreath for ANY traces of gilt finish, particularly near where the eagle overlaps the wreath. Conversely, I'd make sure the gold finish on the eagle is present on the eagle SPECIFICALLY adjacent to the wreath, preferably with some indications of gilt "slop" onto the underside of the eagle.
Frank, that article you dug up was great. That's not to say that any Assmann injected molded Para badge was produced after Jan 45 of course - only that ones made after that time MAY have been LDO marked.
Regards
Mike KRegards
Mike
Evaluate the item, not the story and not the seller's reputation!
If you PM/contact me without the courtesy of using your first name, please don't be offended if I politely ignore you!Comment
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Thanks John, Frank and Mike.
I believe that my digital camera doesn't do the badge justice. If you look a bit closer to the picture a certain "German" fellow took below ... it seems to be not as dark as my pictures indicate
P.S. I read somewhere sometime what the "2" signified. Was it a die number or for something else?
Last edited by h009291; 11-13-2004, 09:41 PM.Comment
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Thanks guys, but that is what I said, isn´t it:
Eric´s badge underlines it with the absence of the L/64 mark. But also be aware that Mr. Nikolas theoretically could have bought his late war injection molded Assmann para badge well AFTER 1943. Maybe he was awarded another, earlier badge originally in 1943. I doubt these were made as early as 1943.The "new" L/64 mark in connection with the new decree of January 1945 make it obvious that these badges have been made by Assmann for that new business opportunity. Another example would be the late war L/64 marked LW Flak badge by Assmann.
Fact is that any Assmann badge marked L/64 cannot possibly be pre 1945.
Btw, here is the clip from "Deutsche Uniformen Zeitung", January 1945. I did not post that one before. The red underline highlights that this is the official announcement paper of the Präsidialkanzlei and the LDO.Cheers, Frank
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article itself:Cheers, Frank
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...and from an autumn 1944 issue the latest list of LDO certified makers. Note that Assmann is NOT listed at that point in time!Cheers, Frank
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I can see nothing wrong with this badge; but I think it's strange that in the first 25 years of collecting FJ, I saw maybe five of these, but in the past 12 months, I've seen at least a dozen, all the same, all die number 2, all in this superb condition. Time was, this was a very rare badge in any condition. Now it seems to be everywhere in perfect condition. I wonder if any of the other old time FJ collectors think this is remarkable. After so many years in the hobby, this sort of odd coincidence makes me start to ask paranoid questions, like, "I wonder if the Assmann firm (which is still making badges for the Bundeswehr today) has some people moonlighting with original dies?"Comment
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After a good night´s sleep, I read up what is written in Eric´s book. He says in his caption that the Nikolas badge DOES have the L/64 mark . Doing some more thinking, I am not aware of any of these injection mold cast badges WITHOUT the L/64 mark. Are there any?
For those of you who cannot read German, there is some of the black on white contemporary evidence in these articles which are official announcements of the Präsidialkanzlei and the LDO in their official announcement magazine distributed among makers and dealers of uniforms, badges, flags, insignia, etc:
1) Before January 1945 (when this article was published), NONE of the Luftwaffe badges (which of course includes the para badges) were sold at private purchase stores with an LDO license. They were strictly and only ("allein") sold through the Verkaufsabteilung der Luftwaffe" in Berlin which was NOT part of the LDO and had nothing to do with the LDO. That is why, with the exception of these late war Assmann paras and the late war Assmann Luftwaffe Flak badges, none of the Luftwaffe badges ever have LDO marks.
Now explain ANY Luftwaffe badge pre 1945 with an LDO mark like L/64?!
2) The last article I show is from autumn 1944. It lists all the makers of badges up to that time with a LDO license. Assmann is NOT in that list. Now explain an Assmann L/64 badge pre autumn 1944?!
I wonder why we even think that such a badge which fullfills BOTH the
a) Luftwaffe
and
b) LDO mark (L/64) criteria
could possibly have been made before the end of 1944 and sold before 1945?
Besides, these L/64 para badges were not awarded, they were for private purchase ONLY. This certainly was ONE of Mr. Nikolas´ para badges. There is no other rational explanation. It is one of the few occasions in this hobby where we have written evidence and do not have to rely on stories.
I don´t want to hurt anybody´s feelings here, but there is no way a detective would believe a witness which swears the bankrobbers cap was blue when a surveillance video would show it was indeed red. Mr. Nikolas might honestly not have remembered thatthis was not his ONLY and FIRST badge.
As an example, my father gave me his medals in 1977. There was an EK1 among it, which I found out much later was a copy from the 60ies. He just did not remember he had bought it at some fleamarket and that it was not his actual one (which he must have lost).Cheers, Frank
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Hi,Originally posted by Frank Heukemes
Frank, I thought the Assmann non-L/64 marked injection molded LW Para Badges were a lot more common than the L/64 marked examples. Maybe I misunderstood what you were asking though?
Attached is my example which came from the family of a US WW2 Veteran. It also has the "2" but only the stamped A (although it's blurry in the scan). And yes, the eagle looks silver, not gold, in real life - don't ask me why (?storage?).
Regards
Mike K
PS: My previous response wasn't going against what you said, I was just clarifying/specifying that injection molded Assmann LW Para badges MAY have been made before Jan 45.
PPS: The pre Jan 45 LW <-> LDO connection certainly raises some BIG questions over L/11 and L/12 marked buntmetal/nickel silver/tombak Retired Pilot's Badges!! - unless the markings were genuinely applied but "illegally"??Last edited by Mike Kenny; 11-14-2004, 07:36 AM.Regards
Mike
Evaluate the item, not the story and not the seller's reputation!
If you PM/contact me without the courtesy of using your first name, please don't be offended if I politely ignore you!Comment
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