Fake Deumer Para badge

[mmiller]

Prosper and All,

I checked my Deumer. The eagle does not look like the eagle on Prosper's example. It looks more like the eagle on my Juncker. Both of my examples are nickel-silver wreaths with brass eagles. Maybe my Deumer is similar to the one Prosper saw a while back.

Opinions?

Mark

The Deumer



The Juncker

[Mike Kenny]

Hi,

I tend to agree with Mark that the Deumer and Juncker Para Badges came from different dies. I've also compared my Juncker and Deumer LW Para Badges in detail and, although there are some similarities, there are a lot of differences. I've though the same about Deumer and Juncker Pilot Badges in the past as well but someone has since compared them in detail and also came up with enough differences to say that they weren't the same. It makes geographic sense as well - Juncker and JMME (for which some form of relationship almost certainly existed) were both Berlin based but Deumer was in Ludenscheid. All the really strong connections between makers I've seen so far have been when the makers are based in the same city.

I saw the Deumer badge at the top of the thread on the auction site and it looked great. I've seen some originals with that type of finish and was quite interested. It took some careful comparison with my original to figure out that it was indeed a very good repro though. I only went as far as the detailing of the feathering before losing interest though. Without being able to make that direct comparison, it would easily fool.

Mark, my Deumer LW Para needs a main pin. Care to cut yours off and send it down under?! Also, don't you hate it how some idiots have to scratch a badge to see what's underneath. I can't figure out if they're looking for gold or looking for a brain!

Regards
Mike K

PS: Mark, I'm assuming that the scratches were on your Juncker before you bought it!!

[mmiller]

Sure Mike, no problem.

Since the Juncker is already scratched, I'll just yank the whole pin/hinge assembly off with a pair of pliers. I can always drill a couple of holes through the wreath and mount the badge to a piece of wood with some screws.....

But seriously, the eagles are close but not the same. Your theory on 'manufacturers in the same town sharing parts' is as good an explanation as any.

MM

[John Hodgin]

Juncker's para badge

Mark, Thanks for posting the good examples to compare. Your Juncker has a unique feature that my pre war Juncker para badge and one that Jos posted earlier share. On all three the front toe/talon is clipped off above the swaz.. I've only seen this done on Junckers.
best,
John

[JAMES.M]

Deumer/Junker Para Badge

With respect to these two manufactures, it would seem that the individual pieces of the badges were outsourced. As John mentioned, he has only seen the Juker badgewith front toe/talon is clipped off above the swaz. I have a Deumer Para Badge with this feature. It looks more like the Junker marked badges that have been shown than it does the Deumer pieces.
Cheers.
James

[John Hodgin]

Hi James,

Post a photo of the Deumer when you can, I'd like to see it and it's maker mark. Thanks,
John

[JAMES.M]

John,
I can't post photos worth squat! I've sent a series of photos to Prosper, if he happens along he might be able to post them. If you like, I can email them to you!
Cheers.
James

[skip]

Thanks for all the great pics. guys, I,ve copyed them all for future referance. I do in fact already own a para badge exactly the same as the one shown in the thread" Para Badge? ",and I,m looking for a nice "Buntmetaller" to join it.
Prosper,thanks for the lecture,I appreciate your comments, I,ve also been collecting for a few years and I had actually noticed that this could be a copy, I just wanted to show all the other poor sobs out there what sort of quality fakes around.
I´ve just had a nasty thought though, what if the fakers stop putting maker marks on the copies?,the material, stamping and hinge /pin assembly are all nearly spot on,Its then going to be difficult to sort out the good from the bad.

[John Hodgin]

Hi Skip,

Years ago I used to suspect that fakers 'built in' errors on reproductions on purpose, so they could tell the difference. An example is the 'foot' on the 1 on the 71 size stamp in a repro Fj helmet shell. Now I think that was giving them too much credit. Buy why make a hinge too wide, or off center the eagle? They have to have an authentic badge example to copy. Why not make it exact? Just lack of attention to detail? Whatever, I hope they keep making mistakes.

Regards,
John

[Willi Z.]

Yes John, you were giving them too much credit....lol. The repro makers always leave something out, either because it is too expensive to make it perfect, or they don't have to make it perfect to sell, or they just don't know. The makers of those repro FJ helmets have already corrected their mistakes.........new ones don't have the "_" on the "1". They are constantly improving their product, partly because of guys like us who get the word out on what is wrong....or put it in print..:-)

Regards,

Willi

[Jos L C]

Hello Gentlemen,
A off centered eagle is not a feature of a fake badge.
Originals also have this feature.
I'll show you a very blurry picture of a very flat early Assmann pilots badge I once had in my collection,it was before there were any scanners or digital camera's,so the picture is scanned and cropped from a very small old Photograph I still have of it,sorry for that !
But,despite the bad quality of the pic you can see the eagle is off centered and this is a original badge.

Jos.

[John Hodgin]

Nice badge Jos! Do you wish that you still had it? The eagle is off center but it isn't far off as the repo para badge was.

Best,
John

[IVAN]

Hi to all,

I post other 2 Deumer buntmetal badge to compare and help to clear some dubts.

Ivan

[IVAN]

Reverse

[IVAN]

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