Fake Deumer Para badge

[Lorenzo Brown]

"Skip" sent me this scan of a fake Deumer Para Badge to be posted on the forum.

[Lorenzo Brown]

Reverse

[heinrich66]

This badge has been sold on a german website as genuine!

Greetings

Heinrichmoremad

[John Hodgin]

Fake Deumer Para badge

It's a good copy and would fool many. The eagle looks correct, but the hinge looks strange, it seems too wide. The catch is brass looking, shouldn't be brass except on early Assmann's to my experience.

[skip]

Well you´ve got to admit that they are getting pretty damm close to the real thing.If i had´nt had Lorenzos excellant pictures to compare I would have bought this and thrown another 300 Euros out of the window.
Thanks for you´r home page and for posting this Lorenzo.

[skip]

Hi John,

I have seen hinges nearly as wide as this on original Deumer war badges

[John Hodgin]

hinge

Hi Skip,

Nearly as wide, yes. I have badges with hinges 'nearly' as wide also, but not as wide. To me there is an incorrect look to this hinge. Have seen reproduction Osang's with very wide hinges as well.

[Prosper Keating]

Here is the obverse of a genuine early Deumer jump badge:

[Prosper Keating]

...and the reverse:

[Prosper Keating]

It's not even a case of "Close but no banana!". I think that this new fake and the genuine example are substantially different. Check, for instance, the wreath ties. And the eagle's head, particularly in the area above the beak. And then there's the uppermost or rearward wing. In fact, just look at the two eagles: they are totally different!

If you're worried that you might be caught out by a fake like this, then make sure that you know what to look for before you buy a badge. Various manufacturers produced Luftwaffe jump badges and there is a lot to learn but start off by choosing, say, two types to study, like the Assmann and the Deumer. And if some bloke at an arms fair or in the toilets of your local pub offers you a jump badge and it's not a type with which you are familiar, then do not risk $400 or $500.

Do not be ashamed of saying "I do not know if it is original or not because I am not familiar with this type so I will pass". I do it all the time...which is why my collection is modest by some standards, in terms of quantity, but outstanding in terms of quality. Because I avoid wandering about outside the parameters of my knowledge, thereby avoiding unnecessary risks when my knowledge is inadequate. And when I decide to expand into a new field or topic, then I sit down and absorb all available information before setting out to add a particular medal, badge or document to my collection. I know that some people find the research aspect of collecting distinctly unamusing and that's fine...but getting stung for hundreds of dollars is also distinctly unamusing!

By the way, if someone, especially a dealer or some shifty-looking shyster at the bar in an arms fair offers you what purports to be a mint, original LWPB by Deumer - presumably this fake is supposed to represent an early tombak type - for €300 or $280, then it is likely to be a fake. If this were a genuine Deumer LWPB in this sort of condition, even a zinc example, you'd be looking at $450.00 or more. It's funny how the prices of so-called top-end fakes often hover around 60% or 70% of the value of an original: cheap enough to tickle that desire for a bargain but expensive enough to gull the unwary and inexperienced into thinking that it's genuine but that they're getting it "wholesale"...for the price the dealers pay. Nudge...Wink...a nice little badge, sir, a lot of badge for your money!"

Anyone want a nice set of Oakleaves? Only $3000! Got them from a veteran's widow. Genuine? Of course they are!

Prosper Keating

[Ian Tannahill]

Giday everyone,

Prosper is right. If you compare the original badge that Prosper has shown us with the questionable badge, there are many differences. For example, the tip of the tail feathers look quite different. Similarly the eagle of the fake badge is much thicker than that of the original badge.

Thanks Prosper for sharing those images with us.

All the best,

Ian

[ERIC S.]

Also,IMO, the eagle is way to far over to the left - eagles beak breaking the wreath? - swastika is definately too far to the left - swas is usually pretty much centered over the ties at the bottom of the wreath. Just a couple of observations.
ERIC

[Prosper Keating]

A pleasure, Ian. I was thinking, after posting my response, of a Deumer-marked LWPB I saw a few years ago that was far more like a C E Juncker LWPB when, hey presto, someone sends me a couple of scans of such a badge after seeing this thread. Like the badge I once saw, which looked and felt genuine, this badge looks just like an early Juncker-made example except that it has W Deumer's hallmark.

Now, we know that various manufacturers had arrangements with one another, that they shared parts with or supplied parts to one another. Godet and Zimmermann is a case in point: there are 1939 EK1s that are identical bar the Godet and Zimmermann marks and it would appear that their RKs were also the result of a joint venture of some kind. Parts for flight badges and even complete badges were outsourced by some manufacturers, presumably to make up orders, which is common practice in all industries. So...a Juncker LWPB in all but its maker's mark?

Anyone else seen this?

PK

[Rich G]

Prosper

I haven't seen this regarding the LWPB but it would be interesting to try to match companies that shared components.

I'll start a new thread with some examples.

Regards

Richard

[John Hodgin]

Para badge makers

Hello Prosper,

The eagle on the badge you posted isn't exactly like the early Juncker's eagles. The eye and beak are different. Is the eagle on this badge made of tombak? The pre war para badges that I've seen have brass eagles. Yours looks more like an early war badge.

I agree that makers shared parts, or perhaps the larger companies supplied parts to smaller firms for assembly. I have seen Imme and Deumers with the identical eagle design, one that isn't the usual eagle associated with Deumer. All this is just my observations and meant as such. I'm not a badge collector or 'expert.'

Regards,
John