KRETA cuff title award document

[Eric Queen]

Frank,

Thanks for sending the color copy. I received it in the mail today. I will post it here now for everyone to look at. IMHO there is little doubt that the piece is not original for the following reasons.

As I said before

1. Andreas HAGL was awarded the Kretaband on May 20, 1943, not December 10, 1942.

2. Hagl was not a Hauptmann until May 1943.

3. If a unit is indicated, it should be his present unit ( at the time
the document is issued ) which in Hagl's case should be z.b.V.Stab/FJR3 not 2./FJR3 ( he was Zugfuhrer of 2./FJR3 only until 10.6.41 )

In addition to the above historical problems

4. Every original document ( that I have ever seen. Correct me if I am wrong here guys ), has the words "Aermelband>KRETA<" in
maroon, NOT black. All fakes ( that I have seen ) have these words in black.
* compare with the one from Willi Peters below.

5. I don't like the stamp. Among other things, the "g" in Fliegerkorps is backwards.

Looking forward to hearing other opinions. Willi, what are your thoughts?

[Ian Tannahill]

Greetings everyone,

Eric, you mentioned earlier that you had never seen a document for the Kreta cuff title that had been issued to a paratrooper which was dated earlier than 1943. Below is a list of the dates and units pertaining to documents taken from my own collection and from copies of documents that I received directly from veterans:

DATE UNIT

12 Nov 42 8 FJR 2
19 Nov 42 3 FJR 1
13 Dec 42 4 Sturm Rgt
11 Feb 43 3 FJR 3
20 May 43 9 FJR 3
20 May 43 1 Sturm Rgt

In every case the words, "ARMELBAND KRETA", are coloured maroon.

In the case of those documents that are dated 1943, the jäger's name and details of his current unit are mentioned on the certificate. None of the documents dated 1942 contain any reference to the unit to which the jäger was assigned to at the time the certificate was issued.

I have compared the stamps on each of the documents referred to above. In every case the stamp is the same as that on the Peters document.

What I find interesting is that the Peter's document, which is dated 1943, contains no reference to his unit. Thus my comments above re the unit can not be taken as being true for every document dated 1943.

All the best,


Ian

[Ian Tannahill]

Greetings again,

I realized when I got home that my list contained a couple of errors.

The unit associated with the date 19 November 1942 should read as follows:
16 Fallschirm-Jg. Erg. Rgt. 1

The unit associated with the date 13 December 1942 should read as follows:
FJR 5

(These are the units that I believe the jäger belonged to at the time the certificate was issued to them based upon other documents I have that relate to these men. Remember, these certificates do not contain any reference to the jäger's unit.)

Another one for the list:

12 November 1942 2/Fl M.G. Batl.


I will continue to add to more dates/units to the list in the days to come. In the meantime if any one else wishes to contribute to the list, I look forward to reading what you have to say.

All the best,

Ian

[Willi Z.]

Eric,

Like you, I see nothing I like about that document. For the same reasons you mentioned, plus that "Hauptquartier" typed piece. That unit stamp just lacks crispness to the lettering....same goes for the printed type above and below Student's facsimile signature. As soon as we discussed the unit a few weeks ago I knew the document would have problems. I am rather sure that if we held the paper in our hands we would also know for sure. On Ian's comments, all of my Kretas go from Jan to Dec of 1943, but I wouldn't doubt that some were issued in late '42.

WZ

[Rick White]

Eric,

I am not seeing the scans. Is there a problem on my end or are they not posting properly?

Great thread; keep it going.

Rick White

[Eric Queen]

Rick,

I thought the thread had pretty much come to an end so I removed the images from the host so I could use the space for something else.

Eric

[Rick White]

Hi Eric,

Yes, I was a latecomer to this one Could you email me the scans so I could get caught up?

psychotherapist@hotmail.com

Thanks,

Rick