FJ Helmet With Rivets

[LOTHRINGEN]

HI RON

your helmet is really not current!!!
let us hope that it will not give ideas ......

while observing your helmet I realized that one of the 4 rivets is luft;

is it due to my eyes , the pics , or simply the reality ?

BEST REGARDS

XAVIER

[M35]

M38 no decal

Hi Ron

Very interesting helmet. I've never seen one with 4 split rivets, although I have seen one with a single split rivet replacing one bolt. I am curious why you emphatically state "replaced with standard helmet rivets during the war"? Seems almost logical that some collector might have done this post war, maybe after buying a helmet from a vet with screws missing and no source for original bolts. Also, the positioning of the straps between the band and the shell looks like a post war thing. But then maybe there is a story that goes with this, about your source, or the vet??? It really piques my curiosity!

Regardless, a nice pot and thanks for sharing!

Regards,
Terry

[Ostfries]

what a coincidence,

That’s a coincidence, I saw a M38 last weekend offered on a local show who had normal helmet rivets on both sites and two normal spanner bolts on the back site. You could see that bolts and rivet where un-tampered with and where original to the helmet, I thought that of being weird/rare until I read this thread, beautiful helmet Ron.

[JohnB]

M-38 with rivits

Gentlemen,
Chris M owns one with four rivits instead of spanner bolts. It is probably pictured in the Robert Kurtz book on German Paratroopers published by Schiffer Books.
John

[WalterB]

Interesting. I don't think this would have been done at the factory level, given that the straps in the back part of the helmet are incorrectly placed (i.e., not interlocking or crossed over).

[solo]

Another stange and rare helmet Ron
Another gem from your great collection!

Carlo

[Willi Z.]

Nice helmet Ron. I have only seen a few of these and believe them to be very late war and factory issue. The other features support this.

[M35]

M38

Nice helmet Ron. I have only seen a few of these and believe them to be very late war and factory issue. The other features support this.

Willi

Just curious why you are convinced this is factory issue? The rivets don't match each other or the shell, and the straps are in the wrong place. Rivets negate adjusting the strap length and make that feature useless. Doesn't make sense to me.

Regards,
Terry

[Willi Z.]

Terry, this helmet isn't the one which convinces me, based on the fact that it may have been fiddled with. As John stated, the one Chris has is stone mint unissued and has the same late features, especially the late straps. His helmet is clearly untouched.

The straps on this one may have been readjusted at any time, but that doesn't mean the rivets are not factory issue. I am not saying this as an absolute, I just feel these may be factory issue. To me it is certainly plausable as a late war factory item.

[Spanish Freiwillige]

Ok.....

I think that maybe very late in the war factory issue is possible as para helmet bolts were maybe scarce and in very short supply. I think rivets were painted seperately from helemts, so its possible to have mismached rivets inserted in the helmet at a factory level.

Also I believ that that in the filed maybe replaicing one rivet is possible. To have all four at hand seams like a long shot.

Therfore all four rivets sounds like factory perhpas. one or severla changed sounds field replacment.

Just my common sence

[M35]

M38 no decal

Willi and Jaime

There is some good logic in both your theories. Maybe a look to see what dates are on the rivets would help. I would expect to see a 1943-44 date. On Ron's helmet, you can see that at least two of the rivets are the early brass with nickel plating and smooth parade finish paint, that would not very likely have been laying around late in the war. I also have doubts that para bolts were in short supply since you can still find real ones available today!

My other big argument against the rivets being factory done is the issue of strap adjustment. It makes it virtually impossible - okay, at least a nusiance - to adjust the strap, if rivets are used. The Germans were nothing, if not practical.

Interesting thread and ideas nonetheless!

Regards,
Terry

[Spanish Freiwillige]

what really got me to thinking was the idea of a FJ getting four split pins in the filed. I can only think that he could get them as replacemt from damged helmets, maybe, yet if he has a factroy isse M38 helmet it would be hard tow loose all four bolts at the same time and replace them with regular soplit pins. I can think of maybe one or two pehaps, but all four??

Yet in the factory, maybe under certain circunstances they my have had days in which they needed to get a lot of helmets out and all they had was spare regular split pins.

Who knows!!!

[Mark Sheffy]

Nice helmet...look at the strap arrangement on my helmet,4th page of this forum.