First Panzer SB

[JKDelCollo]

Final pages with entries. All pages with entries have now been posted on this thread.

[Admiraal]

The photo looks to be re-attached. Or a new one was added.

[Ian Jewison]

The photo looks to be re-attached. Or a new one was added.

Thats why I said the staples look shiny....it has definitely "moved" as you can see other holes.

Also is the rank Unteroffizier? You can definitely see devices.....numbers....but also a Feldwebel pip?

/Ian

[Hank C.]

The photo looks to be re-attached. Or a new one was added.

Agree with that, along with Ian's comment on the shininess of the staples. The previous staple holes are clearly visible.

Not saying that it's the kiss of death, just one of those things to be aware of.

best
H

[stgeorge64]

Thats why I said the staples look shiny....it has definitely "moved" as you can see other holes. Also is the rank Unteroffizier? You can definitely see devices.....numbers....but also a Feldwebel pip? /Ian

It looks like a pip denoting Feldwebel rank, and there certainly looks to be a cypher of some description on his shoulder strap.

There doesn't seem to be any signs of previous stamps to go with the previous set of staple holes also.

Regards Richard.

[JKDelCollo]

Thanks, Hank.

So does this devalue the soldbuch? And where would the soldier later in life or another collector/dealer have attached the photo? I am a little confused as to when the photo would have been attached.

Thanks so much!
Jonathan

Agree with that, along with Ian's comment on the shininess of the staples. The previous staple holes are clearly visible.

Not saying that it's the kiss of death, just one of those things to be aware of.

best
H

[InfanterieSammler]

Hi Jonathan,


For what their worth, I will share my opinions with you on the SB.

The entries on pages 1,2, 12/13, 22 (some entries), and 23 are original. These were entered by two different clerks when the SB was opened.. This is a reissued SB for a farmer (Landwirt) originally from Heilbronn, who originally served with the 35. Infanterie Division (Heilbronn). Other than these entries, which are from when the SB was opened, there is only the Pz.Kpf.Abz. in Silver award entry to suggest a Panzer connection. A second clerk (Genesungs Kp.), added the wound entries and awards.

After the fact, someone has decided to enhance the SB into a more "glamorous" Panzer SB. A third person, with different handwriting, using different ink, has added to the awards page the unit info of the Panzer units and for good measure added an EKII. The circled entries are all from that same third person and different from the second clerk's who had entered only the awards and not the units. Furthermore, someone has added a nice Panzer portrait to "complete" this into a Panzer SB. As has already been pointed out, the photo does not even show an Unteroffizier. The signature on inside cover and his signature on Page 2 match, but the photo is clearly a replacement.

Regarding the value, I'm not sure what you paid? In it's original and untouched state, the SB would be worth approx $100-$150 in value. I'm guessing you would have paid significantly more as a "Panzer" SB.

These are my thoughts/opinions on the SB. Others may agree or disagree...

Best Regards,
John

So does this devalue the soldbuch? And where would the soldier later in life or another collector/dealer have attached the photo? I am a little confused as to when the photo would have been attached.

Thanks so much!
Jonathan

[JKDelCollo]

John, thank you so much for your information. It really helps me to learn the "hard way" more or less. I did pay more than the price you quoted and, unfortunately, to a pretty respected dealer at the SOS. Had I been armed with the knowledge I now have I would have been able to spot the flaws outlined. But I do appreciate yours and everyone else's willingness to comment and to educate me.
Jonathan

Hi Jonathan,


For what their worth, I will share my opinions with you on the SB.

The entries on pages 1,2, 12/13, 22 (some entries), and 23 are original. These were entered by two different clerks when the SB was opened.. This is a reissued SB for a farmer (Landwirt) originally from Heilbronn, who originally served with the 35. Infanterie Division (Heilbronn). Other than these entries, which are from when the SB was opened, there is only the Pz.Kpf.Abz. in Silver award entry to suggest a Panzer connection. A second clerk (Genesungs Kp.), added the wound entries and awards.

After the fact, someone has decided to enhance the SB into a more "glamorous" Panzer SB. A third person, with different handwriting, using different ink, has added to the awards page the unit info of the Panzer units and for good measure added an EKII. The circled entries are all from that same third person and different from the second clerk's who had entered only the awards and not the units. Furthermore, someone has added a nice Panzer portrait to "complete" this into a Panzer SB. As has already been pointed out, the photo does not even show an Unteroffizier. The signature on inside cover and his signature on Page 2 match, but the photo is clearly a replacement.

Regarding the value, I'm not sure what you paid? In it's original and untouched state, the SB would be worth approx $100-$150 in value. I'm guessing you would have paid significantly more as a "Panzer" SB.

These are my thoughts/opinions on the SB. Others may agree or disagree...

Best Regards,
John

[Edward]

John, I would second the same showing those areas you circled.

Johnathan, it's probably happened to everyone at one time or another. You may also want to see if the dealer has a return policy.

[JKDelCollo]

I almost bought a panzer visor from him and he said he did offer a guarantee of authenticity but I never got anything in writing and I am sure he would say I should have known what I was buying.

Johnathan, it's probably happened to everyone at one time or another. You may also want to see if the dealer has a return policy.

[Edward]

Johnathan, possibly, but not a few of the better known on-line dealers who make the show rounds do have return policies. Would you mind sharing who it was bought from?

[JKDelCollo]

This dealer has no online presence. No email either. I asked about him with one of my really well respected friends and he said he was ok. All I will say is that he is based in the southern-central part of the US.

Johnathan, possibly, but not a few of the better known on-line dealers who make the show rounds do have return policies. Would you mind sharing who it was bought from?

[SJP]

Hi Jk, He does have a Ph# I suspect. If your sources vetted him I would contact him.His return policy is good when presented with facts.I would not stand for being “stuck” with it .
Cheers Steve

[JKDelCollo]

Maybe best to send it back to him (I have his address from the SOS Book) along with print-outs of posts from this thread (all users redacted) and request my money back. Would be much too difficult to explain on the phone, plus I did phone him after the show (about something else) and it was very hard to hear him on the other end (maybe bad cell connection?) and he didn't really remember me.

I could also just put it up on the E-Stand and try to get some money back and chalk it up as a big learning experience. I am leaning at doing this.

Jonathan

Hi Jk, He does have a Ph# I suspect. If your sources vetted him I would contact him.His return policy is good when presented with facts.I would not stand for being “stuck” with it .
Cheers Steve

[Stormfighter]

I had already written up my many of my observations about this Soldbuch, but because several members have already addressed most of the issues, I decided not to post my detailed post about the Soldbuch. Instead, I simply would like to address the photo in the Soldbuch.

As Ian pointed out, the staples attaching the photo to the cover are shiny and appear new. After seeing a photo of the front cover, we see that another photo had been originally stapled to the inside cover. In the second photo the current owner posted that shows the Soldbuch photo, you can see a darker area to the left of the photo, which most likely shows the position of the original photo. Also, the impressions of the staples on page 1 do not match up. The angles of the staples are not consistent with the staple impressions on page 1, especially the staple at the bottom. The staple impression on page 1 has a much higher angle than the staple on the bottom of the photo. Additionally, the stamps are very weak - a tactic often used by forgers - and from what I see, no ink from the circular edge of the stamp transferred to the top left of the photo.

The awards listed on page 22 bring the photo into further question. Claus was awarded The Panzerkampfwagenabzeichen - and yes, this term for the Tank Assault Badge was written this way early in the war, but later was known as the Panzerkampfabzeichen - Wound Badge in Black, the Eastern Front Medal, and supposedly the E.K. II (Iron Cross Second Class). I think Panzer uniform collectors will agree that the photo in the Soldbuch shows a soldier wearing an early Panzer wrapper made of very thick wool. Claus was supposedly awarded the Iron Cross Second Class in October 1942, so for starters, I wouldn't expect the soldier to be wearing such an early Panzer wrapper; however, it's not an impossibility. In the Soldbuch photo, the soldier is only wearing the ribbon for the Iron Cross Second Class, the last award Claus supposedly received. The ribbon for the Eastern Front Medal does not appear in the photo, which he had been awarded prior to the supposed "award" of the Iron Cross Second Class - I see no reason why Claus would not have been wearing the ribbon for this award. Furthermore, there is absolutely no sign of his Panzer Assault Badge - the photo shows a large portion of the wrapper and I would expect to see at least the very top of a Panzer Assault Badge. A wound badge would have been positioned below the Panzer Assault Badge, so there would be no sign of it in the photo. What I believe is the forger thought the photo would be good enough and in order to corroborate the award of the Iron Cross Second Class seen in the photo, on page 22, he added the E.K. II entry and as InfanterieSammler stated, added the units to the right of the awards the soldier actually received. In my opinion, the photo is not a photo of Adolf Claus, but another Panzer soldier.