e-stand :Wehrpass for Panzergefreiter (1./Pz.Abt.506)

[Hank C.]

I believe it to be Rgt St Bef=Regiment Stabsbefehl.


I think the thing that looks like a "c" is the beginning of the "t".

Jared

Ah, okay! Thank you very much Jared.

best,
Hank

[christof]

I should pass on this Wehrpass because I dont beleve this PKA entrie. Not sure but....

[Lionel H.]

Hehehehehe, Yes I am sure Lionel.
And I thought that you as an old paper collector yourself would have known better what was going on in our hobby.

Originals do still show up.
One of the WAF sponsors does have three originals listed.
- "Hauptmann u. Abt. Kommandeur"
- "Hauptmann (W) u. Chef der Kraftfahr-u. Gerätebatterie"
- "III./A.L.R.(mot) 2"
35 Euro each .....

And of course there are stamps available copied from the originals........as shown here.
http://blog.intrenches.com/#home
http://www.intrenches.com/stamps.htm
A complete rubber stamp sheet for only US $ 49.

And all the rubbish stamps that are for sale on Ebay, Epier, Hood, Militaria321, our own e-stand etc.

So a faker doesn't have to invest a lot of money, he only has to find someone with the right ink and writing style.

Best regards

Eric-Jan

Tks Eric-Jan !!

I appreciate this information ! Few Chances to meet me on many Militaria fair, or registered in a bunch of Web Sites. I select carefully the places where I spent time (and sometimes Money), by this Way I avoid making me crazy with bull...t presented as originals, or selfnamed "experts" giving their opinion based on nothing serious. But the point is, I am not always aware of the new creations from Fakers all over the Word, only if a Friend of mine ask me to pay attention to some extremely dangerous new products. The latest example is the quite well done German in Cross formal documents coming from Germany.... Concerning the Stamps, I was not aware of this, the previous fakes I have seen were the well known "childisch" SS-Stamps born in the mid 80's and more than dangerous.
Most fakers have/had also the Opportunity to purchase ORIGINAL Stamps, especially FpNr., the easiest Way to certify fake Entries. My Advice is "always spend more time to examine any FpNr-Stamp which number is not clearly readable".
We can still avoid bad surprises in Paper-Matter by using a simple Rule "Don't buy if you have any Doubts". Trying to confirm the first-glance Doubt, or to eliminate it , is always funny and instructive.

[mufasa]

these topic of "strong analysis" are really interesting and instructive: thanks!

and I am completely agree with 708.V.G.D. that without a couple of legible (and correct) Feldpost stamp we have to turn on all the antennas.....

[Gary T]

I'm afraid that entry is 100% fake and a very poor one to be honest.

Apart from all the valid points Eric has made there is also the question of why the H. E. St. followed the regulations and closed off the rank and other award entr y (specifically done to prevent additions being made by the WP owner) but somehow failed to do the same for the entry in question.

[Nordfront]

Fine, so that entry is 100% fake and very poor one too.

It is quite interesting then that this entry did fool two previous owners, who are not exactly beginners in this hobby.

I bought a lot of SB/WP from this seller and got careless, but I trust that he just missed this bad entry same way like I did. Also, this Wehrpass was on e-stand for couple of weeks back in 2010. There were no comments then, unfortunate for me.

"Why the H. E. St. followed the regulations and closed off the rank and other award entry?" Mistakes happened for sure, since not even Germans are perfect. Yes, I agree now that PKA enrtry is bad, but he should have been entitled to it since I just can't belive that he managed to avoid all the action his unit was involved in.

[Gary T]

Hi,

Sorry, but you don't know that 'he should have been entitled to it'. He may have earnt it and it never got entered (a unlikely event in this case seeing as he was formally discharged).

Time served, even in company sized combat unit, doesn't necessarily mean he was a fulltime combat soldier, in this case a panzer crewman - the logistical tail of a panzer kompanie was about 50% of all personnel of that kompanie. And that is only if the unit was at full strength with its panzers.

The same above applies to infantry companies as well- I'm sure all collectors have WPs to infantry who served a number of years in Russia without receiving an assault award, even though they sometimes then even have silver\gold Wound Badges to show for their efforts.

[Lionel H.]

Hi,

Sorry, but you don't know that 'he should have been entitled to it'. He may have earnt it and it never got entered (a unlikely event in this case seeing as he was formally discharged).

Time served, even in company sized combat unit, doesn't necessarily mean he was a fulltime combat soldier, in this case a panzer crewman - the logistical tail of a panzer kompanie was about 50% of all personnel of that kompanie. And that is only if the unit was at full strength with its panzers.

The same above applies to infantry companies as well- I'm sure all collectors have WPs to infantry who served a number of years in Russia without receiving an assault award, even though they sometimes then even have silver\gold Wound Badges to show for their efforts.

Absolutely correct, and important to say.

[12thPanzer]

I don't know if this post will aid in any of the matter a hand, but figured Id chime in. I own the Black Wound Badge document to Josef. I was given copies of the wehrpass ( I think years ago) , and the PKA is noted in there. When Josef was awarded the PKA, 9th Pz Div was just North of Shizdra, an area heavily threatened by Soviet Forces.

Josef was wounded on March 12, but was given the WBiB in field on March 30, 1943, while with 7./Pz Rg 33.

During this time of his wound, Josef would have been fighting heavy defensive battles on the Jasonek River aka "Gornwald", or the Gorn Forst.....w/ many occurrences of counter attacks with Panzer and even hand to hand combat. By March 18th, Soviet resistance diminished North of Zhizdra. The 9th Pz Div had proven itself during he month long battle and was awarded 5 KC's, 13 DKiG's, 213 EKI's, and 1,545 EKII's!! So even though the entry is a bit out of he norm, I find I very easily to believe Josef earned his PKA in Silver very easily during these times. One thing that is unfortunate, is that if his WBiB doc would come out of the woodwork, it's too bad that the PKA wouldn't with it. (which does happen)

Anyway, Ive had this document for years and would love to see it back to the original grouping, like I have done with so many oher documents/badges in my collection. Feel free to PM me if anyones interested

[Eric JB]

So even though the entry is a bit out of he norm, I find I very easily to believe Josef earned his PKA in Silver very easily during these times.

Hi Bill,

Thank you for showing the man's wound badge in black document.
We don't know if Josef did earn his PKA in silver or not, but that doesn't change the fact that the PKA in silver entry isn't a wartime original one in his Wehrpaß.

Best regards

Eric-Jan

ps. Post # 22 by Gary T. says it all.

[12thPanzer]

Hi Bill,

Thank you for showing the man's wound badge in black document.
We don't know if Josef did earn his PKA in silver or not, but that doesn't change the fact that the PKA in silver entry isn't a wartime original one in his Wehrpaß.

Best regards

Eric-Jan

ps. Post # 22 by Gary T. says it all.

Gotcha Eric,
And I fully agree.....youdd think that the PKA doc would have shown up wih the WBiB at the time of discovery too? Anyway, figured I would share what I had involving this man. Unfortunate, because he had an interesting career w/ 9. Panzer Division and it still is a very nice grouping