Fake German Identity Discs pt. 2

[Matt L]

Well thanks Dallas- I'm happy to have helped.

I certainly don't have any compunction about offering my opinion- I don't usually give it unless I'm pretty certain about what I'm saying. Of course I'm always interested in other opinions- we rarely learn as much as we do from being wrong! It's FAR better for someone who doesn't agree to say so and initiate a discussion from which both could learn, to him/her sitting back and just thinking 'what a DUMBA$$'. (I don't mean that as a shot against anyone, but just as a generality as I know in this particular situation, circumstances prevented that).

I really try not to let things get out of hand and far prefer agreeing to disagree over things to them getting silly and personal- we can't agree with everyone, right?

[Edward]

Hello Mat,

I don't collect disks, but have found your posts on disks both interesting and informative. Good job.

The only one I have is from the widow of a veteran who was in the Heer which I was given many years ago. I'll dig it up and post the info for you tomorrow as I would be interested in learning any info as to what unit he belonged to. Thanks in advance.

Regards

[Chris Stewart]

Ah, well. Anyone who frequents the aforementioned forums should also be aware that this fake peddler Keith Loughmiller is also an admin on those forums. The admins name is legionman. I'm surpised they let such a pathetic little man be a moderator over there.

If you have a problem with me Keith, stop your stupid little games and confront me. Shoot me an e-mail! Or you can continue to make yourself look like even more of an idiot. Are you sure you don't have some hidden issues with homosexuality? Perhaps you should stop accusing others and have a sit down by yourself to try and figure out that yourself. I'm sure there are people out there that can help you!

Anyway, I'm done publically dealing with you, but rest assured I won't roll over and die. If you continue, I will continue. Threaten me if you want, but rest assured if you ever meet me in person, which you probably want to, you would be face down in the mud crying for your Mommie not the other way around.

[Matt L]

Hello Mat,

I don't collect disks, but have found your posts on disks both interesting and informative. Good job.

The only one I have is from the widow of a veteran who was in the Heer which I was given many years ago. I'll dig it up and post the info for you tomorrow as I would be interested in learning any info as to what unit he belonged to. Thanks in advance.

Regards

Hi Edward,

Thanks very much and I'd be interested to see your disc and share whatever information I have about the unit.

Matt

[Edward]

Hi Matt,

Thanks for the kind reply. Sorry about the typo on your name.

Will get the information tomorrow. Cheers.

Regards,

[Edward]

Hello Matt,

I do not have a scanner, but the disk has the following on it; 1 Land Schutz Ers Batl 5. It also has the blood type and serial number on it. It looks to be made out of a light metal such as either zinc or alluminum. There are also three slots in the middle of the disk and two holes for the cord at the top. Overall in very nice condition. From what I know of Land Schutz units these were primarily Heer outfits used for home defense and prisoner camp units. From the widow she related that her husband was killed very late in the war which makes sense as personnel from these units were used in combat during that time. This is interesting as I would have figured that the disk would have remained with her husband. Any reply most appreciated.

Regards

[Matt L]

Hi Edward,

Unfortunately, I only have a very small bit of information about Landesschützen Ersatz Bataillon 5- it was from Rastatt, Wehrkreis V, and supplied troops to Landesschützen Bataillone 401-450.

People sometimes translate 'Landesschützen' as 'Home Defense', however I think a better one is 'Local Defense'. The Landesschützen were used in combat for much of the war actually- I've seen a number of discs from their units that had been recovered in the area around Volgograd (Stalingrad), so they had to be there before the pocket closed on 23. November 1942. This means that it definitely wasn't a late-war thing for them to be used at the front. There's also the possibility that they might have been transferred to actual combat units- a soldier carried his first Erkennungsmarke for his whole service time, save for the Fallschirmjäger and Luftwaffe flying units.

Landesschützen Erstaz Bataillone also supplied personnel to Sicherungs Regimenter and Bataillone (Security), Transport Sicherungs Regimenter and Bataillone (Transport security), and Festungs Infanterie Bataillone (Fortress infantry battalions)

Normally, yes, the top half of the disc would remain with the wearer where he killed, and the bottom half would be returned to his unit to register his death. I've heard that sometimes the disc would return to his family with awards, etc., and this is what must have happened in the case of the disc you have. If this widow got her husband's entire disc, he must not have died in the field or anywhere that his body would have to be identified.

Matt

[Edward]

Hello Matt,

Thank you for taking the time to post the fine information to my query. I do not know a great deal about the Heer replacement system, or that personnel from Land Schutzen battalions were sent forward as replacements to combat units at the front and just not at the end, but much earlier. Makes total sense to me.

Interesting that such disks have been found as far forward as Stalingrad. Unfortunately I cannot even remember the widows name now, so I figure that it would be impossible to track down the soldier based off of only the disk serial number.

Regards

[Matt L]

Hi Edward,

You're quite welcome, I'm glad to have been able to help.

Actually it is possible to find information only using the markings on an identity disc- that was the whole point, yes? The German government has an organization called the Deutsche Dienststelle (WASt) that specifically deals with information about the soldiers of the former Wehrmacht. To a large extent they provide information for relatives about war graves, but they also have what service records still exist. They identify soldiers found in field graves by their identity discs. I know of a couple of cases of Luftwaffe pilots and aircrew listed as MIA who were identified when their crashed aircraft were excavated by a friend in Belgium. I also know a couple of 'prospectors' in the Ukraine and Russia who report any remains they discover and it is the WASt who identifies these fallen soldiers- from their identity discs.

My Dad got information on both his uncle and my Grandmother's cousin a few years ago from them, albeit he did have their names. One does have to pay for a record search, and I understand that often they find nothing, but it is possible. Now the only thing is that I'm not sure whether or not they only release information to relatives- in my Dad's case, he had to get a letter of permission from his aunt who was the closest living relative who was a German citizen.

I honestly don't know if they'll release information to just anyone- at least as far as service records go. The fact that I've read a couple of postings on various Fora by guys who have tried to get service records based on identity discs they have in their collections, and they said the WASt came back with a reply of no records exist. This suggests they will do it, but then there was the whole rigamaroll my Dad had to go through... so I don't really know. I've mentioned this to many people who ask about finding information about veterans, but no one has mentioned whether or not they actually tried, nor what happened if they did.

Matt

[Edward]

Hello Matt,

Thanks again for another informative reply. Actually I am familiar with the WASt. Never used there services for any records searches as I collect WP/SB's which already has the veterans service info present. As I don't collect disks I had no clue until now that it may be possible to actually research the disk further based off his service number which is very good news indeed. I will give them a try then and see how it turns out. It's certainly worth a try.

Regards

[Chris Stewart]

Let us know how it works out - I have a whole pile of discs I would love to know more about

[Edward]

Hello Chris,

Thanks, will do.

Regards