KL Wehrpass

[Hundestaffel]

From what I see here, and from what are "common traits and identifiers" among those Ethnic German's whose first military assignment was a KL, I believe strongly that this Wehrpass is 100% correct and unaltered.

The associaiton / connection between these specific type of KL Wehrpasses and their WBK's etc., is somewhat complicated and detailed, but from what I see here, I do believe that this is a legitimate KL Wehrpass that has not been "enhanced" or "played with" in any way.

"Hundestaffel"

[SiPo]

I agree with "Hundestaffel."

Please compare with this example also from the "30 Januar" Halbe find. Same wear and tear and possibly same clerk's handwriting.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...00&postcount=4

[Lee Luke]

Hundestaffel,

Glad for your opinion. I have been waiting on your opinion, due to your previous threads and knowledge with KL items.

Thanks too everyone

[Panzer Rob]

Well, I don't understand how not having stamps over the photo - nor on page 1 - would not send up any red flags but given his years of experience and knowledge of this material, Hundestaffel's "thumbs up" would be enough for me to sleep easy at night!

As I mentioned earlier, the pass itself and unit entries look fine - it's the photo and signatures that still have me concerned. I don't see anything special or unique enough about this one that would give me reason to take the plunge considering the anomalies... There are much more impressive and completely unquestionable examples out there, but like I said, if the owner is happy then than is what matters most!

Rob

[Hundestaffel]

Quote: Well, I don't understand how not having stamps over the photo - nor on page 1 - would not send up any red flags

Robert - if you wish, we can talk about this through private PM's.....

At ay rate, please do remember that my opinion (and it is only an opinion, it's not the Bible) comes from years of handling solid, unquestionable KL Wehrpass examples (good and bad), and I am always learning (like we all should be open to be). Yes, this piece was not filled out "by the book", but what is shown here leaves me with little doubt as to it's authenticity.

"Hundestaffel"

[Panzer Rob]

Quote: Well, I don't understand how not having stamps over the photo - nor on page 1 - would not send up any red flags

Robert - if you wish, we can talk about this through private PM's.....

At ay rate, please do remember that my opinion (and it is only an opinion, it's not the Bible) comes from years of handling solid, unquestionable KL Wehrpass examples (good and bad), and I am always learning (like we all should be open to be). Yes, this piece was not filled out "by the book", but what is shown here leaves me with little doubt as to it's authenticity.

"Hundestaffel"

Trev-

Just to clarify, I'm not saying that the lack of any stamps on a SB or WP photo should immediately dismisses them as indisputable fakes - but it "should" send up a flag, and pretty quickly! My last post was in reference to other members saying that there are no red flags with the book... The lack of any stamps on a photo, and the lack of any stamp or signature from an issuing authority - are - red flags... at least in my book Again, they do not automatically make the item in question a fake, but should warrant a much closer and in-depth inspection.

That's all...

Rob

[Hundestaffel]

Robert:

I (now !!) hear what your saying (sorry I mis-interpreted things there !!). Keeping on this topic, refer back to my comments in our private PM exchange a while back concerning that Auschwitz KL Wehrpass with the same characteristics - that Au. fellows photo (which was in uniform) would have been added unstamped to the Wehrpass while he was a member of the Au. KL Guard Unit (and would have stayed that way during all his time at Auschwitz), but upon his death was sent back to his WBK who then "Officially" stamped his photo upon closing out his Wehrpass (re-reading what I said while viewing the scans should make this clearer). Remember the specific "backwardness" that one exhibited in regards to it's entries (like the last and final date being entered on the first page) ??? At first glance, it looked very odd (suspicious ??), but was absolutely correct once you "followed the administrative entry trail". Lukes's Wehrpass abruptly stops (typical of many, and could be due to a variety of legitimate reasons), so it never had the opportunity to go back to the soldiers WBK for "proper" closing out (unlike the Au. man's Wehrpass which did after his death in hospital).

The Wehrpasses of many (but admittedly not all) Ethnic Germans (and this is the key here) whose first assignment was at a KL took a completely different route administratively then for "full-blooded" Germans. This issue is somewhat complicated and detailed (details of which I will not post here due to the fakers reading this).

At any rate, I do believe "Lee Lukes" KL Mauthausen Wehrpass is, while not administratively complete period wise as per "by the book" regulations, etc., is correct.

"Hundestaffel"

[Lee Luke]

Great discussion.

One big question I have is about the last 2 unit entrys. What are they? The ink and hand writting is similar to the 30 Januar wp's I have seen. My wp also has very rusty staples and some light molding inside the back cover. Similar to those wps'.

[SiPo]

Great discussion.

One big question I have is about the last 2 unit entrys. What are they? The ink and hand writting is similar to the 30 Januar wp's I have seen. My wp also has very rusty staples and some light molding inside the back cover. Similar to those wps'.

Lee,

Please refer to posts 11 & 15.

[Lee Luke]

Yes

Thank you

[polux]

Hello to all,

The document presented by Lee Luke is original and results without contesting from the box of document found in the Halbe's pocket. This box contained the documents of the 6. Kp. of the Freiw. Gren. Rgt. 86, unit of the 32. SS Division " 30 Januar ". After the discovery of this box, I had the chance to bought a series of document of whom 2 Wehrpass from soldiers in post in KL Mauthausen. One of these documents presents the same registration that the Lee's Luke document on the page 12 and I think that the last registration was made by the same man, see enclosed image.

With regard to the absence of stamp and the absence of registration on the page 1, I think that Hundestaffel is right. The administrative meanders of the annexation of the Volksdeutche had to be very different of that of German. As information, I possess two Wehrpass from German of Hungary : these two documents do not contain a stamp on the page 1 and 2 and they are nevertheless authentic !!

Cordial greetings.

Polux

[christof]

Of course dear Polux I agree 100 % with you.

[christof]

Fotos of this famous box


By judex232

[Daniele C]

AMAZING!!!!

When was that box found?
Who owns it or did it get splitted?

Daniele

[Hundestaffel]

christof:

GREAT PHOTOS. Many thankx for posting them.

Polux:

I am pleased to hear that you agree with what I noted in regards to the "administrative path" that many (but not all) Ethnic German Wehrpasses took (especially KL Wehrpasses where the soldiers first duty was at a KL). Again, this matter is somewhat complicated to explain in detail.

That said, certainly the lack of an official validation stamp on / across a photo is (or at least should be) for any collector a "Red Flag" (as Robert noted), but this should not (again, as Robert noted) automatically disqualify it's originality.

There are indeed so many different issues to consider with different documents and ID's.....

"Hundestaffel"