Holland 1940-1945

[Erwin L]

Here you can see he got wounded/arrived in the hospital on 16 november 1944. He got wounded in Holland for sure

[Erwin L]

He got his Verwundeten Abzeichen in Schwarz on 20-12-1944

[Panzer Rob]

I thought that we finally had a contribution from mr. Johnson but again ...... Probably to busy with bumping one of his wanted threads to stay on top every day and opening new wanted threads

And again we have even more personal attacks and harassment from Erwin Loos. Is this type of immature and ignorant behavior is in line with forum guidelines?

Oh, and Erwin, judging from the number of IDs I've been buying the last few weeks and months thanks to those wanted ads, I can honestly say they really do work! But then, considering you have quite a few wanted ads yourself which you like to 'conveniently' bump up when I bump mine -- just as Floris did to me yesterday -- I would imagine the two of you already know that

And why I would now contribute anything to this thread after the constant harassment and insults from Erwin - and now Floris - is beyond me.

Rob

[dennisb]

That is a great piece of history, Erwin!
Thanks for sharing!


P.S. Could we please stop the insults and nagging? It really breaks down this great thread!

[Erwin L]

Rob

Don't be so touchy. You once made such a joke in post 71 from this thread. No problem it was fun, i can handle it. I even had a good laugh about your Statler joke towards me a while back. If other people make a joke towards you it is always harassment and personal attack and you're the victim I'm sorry, my apoligy.

Thanks, "Edward"

It's a truly rare piece of "Battle of Arnhem" history, that's for damn sure. I'm a bit surprised we haven't heard anything from "Floris" or "Erwin_L" as I thought they'd appreciate seeing this one

I wonder if we'll see any other Panzer-Kompanie "Mielke" Soldbücher posted here???

Rob

Take care Rob

regards

Erwin

[mtdr]

I think most of the people has seen this one but to get back to the subject/theme of the thread. Agree with Dennis to stop breaking down/punish this thread; I as a real Dutchman can really enjoy this thread! I want to thank Erwin as he noticed me that this man also fought in Arnheim.

I see Rob talked about Pz. Kp. Mielke, this one was in Pz. Gren. Ausb. Btl. 64; these 2 units based "Kampfgruppe Knaust"







The first elements of Kampfgruppe Knaust arrived in Arnhem on Monday 18th September 1944 and was employed against 2 PARA at the northern end of the Arnhem Road Bridge.

Kampfgruppe Knaust was primarily made up of two units. The first was Panzer-Grenadier-Ausbildungs und Ersatz-Battalion 64 which was a training and replacement battalion from Bocholt, Germany and was commanded by the 38 year old Major Hans-Peter Knaust. The unit consisted of 1 x SPW and 4 infantry companies with soldiers that were classed as ‘not quite fit for front line service'. The second unit was Panzer-Kompanie Mielke which was commanded by Company Commander Lieutenant Mielke. This company was part of the 6th Panzer Replacement Regiment ‘Bielefeld' tank driving school in Germany. It consisted of six Panzerkampfwagen III and two Panzerkampfwagen IV tanks.

Panzer-Kompanie Mielke entrained in Bielefeld, Germany and moved to Elten via Zevenaar, where the Headquarters of the company assembled with Knaust's ‘Bocholt' trainee Panzer Grenadier battalion. The quick organisation and movement of these two units allowed Knaust to report to the IISS Pz Kp HQ at 0400h on the 18th September 1944. Whilst the infantry could be employed that same day, the tanks of Panzer-Kompanie Mielke would not arrive until the 19th September 1944 due to constant allied attacks on the rail system.

His initial orders were to relieve the II./21 Regt ‘Battalion Euling' that were fighting around the Northern Ramp of the Arnhem Bridge. Knaust's Kampfgruppe were placed under command of SS-Sturmbannführer Brinkmann who was already placing pressure on the British defending the bridge. Initially attacks against the British defending the bridge were uncoordinated and optimistic which caused considerable high casualties amongst the attackers. The Germans had also underestimated the British strength at the bridge by 500 men. Throughout the 18th September 1944, Knaust's infantry were involved in bitter hand-to-hand fighting from house to house and would only gain a handful of metres during the day. With the arrival of Panzer-Kompanie Mielke on the 19th September 1944, coordinated combined arms attacks could be employed against the British forces. Tanks and infantry worked close together and would blast British strong points. Kampfgruppe Knaust would employ everything in their arsenal including small arms, MGs, Panzerfausts and Panzers to remove the ‘Red Devils' from the bridge.

By Wednesday the 20th September, LTCOL Frost's 2 PARA forces had shrunk to 150 fighting men out of an original 600. Holding onto a handful of buildings the British put up a resilient fight at the Northern end of the Bridge. In the evening of the 20th after another hard day of hand-to-hand combat, Kampfgruppe Knaust was pulled out of the fighting around the Bridge. They were given a warning order to cross the bridge as soon as it had been cleared of the British and join the new blocking line at Elst. It was at 1200 midday on Thursday 21st September 1944, the British could no longer dominate the road bridge with fire which allowed Kampfgruppe Knaust to cross the Arnhem road bridge. Kampfgruppe Knaust during the fighting between 18 – 21 September had lost three panzers and an unknown number of casualties.

For the people who are interested in career before Hans Dettmer fought in Arnheim(Westfeldzug, Russia, Normandy) see this thread:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=575600

[Panzer Rob]

Rob Don't be so touchy. You once made such a joke in post 71 from this thread. No problem it was fun, i can handle it. I even had a good laugh about your Statler joke towards me a while back. If other people make a joke towards you it is always harassment and personal attack and you're the victim I'm sorry, my apoligy.
Take care Rob
regards

Erwin

Erwin,

There's no comparing what I posted in post 71 (which wasn't a joke by the way) and what you wrote today. The second post you reference was a reply I posted in response to another one of your thinly veiled insults at me and "Hundestaffel." A joke is one thing, and I'm all for having fun and throwing in a little friendly sarcasm here and there but what you wrote about me has nothing to do with the topic of this thread, contributes nothing to the thread and can really only be viewed as an insult.

Rob

[Revellations]

I am very disappointed to see my favourite thread degraded by, what I would refer to as, simple immaturity. I am not interested on why or how it started but to see all my friends commence a 'posting war' on this thread is really disappointing. Perhaps you should all email each other offline and get off your chest what is bothering you rather than sling it out on here within this post. Jokes may not be jokes in some people's eyes as perception can often be reality. I hope you all understand what I am saying and lets not have a measuring contest to see who can post the last post or make the greatest insult...so quit it please!

Back to the thread.....

mtdr,

Love the soldbuch indeed. Please ensure, in future, that you reference where you got the information from on Kampfgruppe 'Knaust'....I only know that it is from www.defendingarnhem.com as the information needs to be updated a little since writing my book.

Pz. Gren. Ausb. Btl. 64 sent men to Arnhem but they may not have been with Kampfgruppe 'Knaust' Some of them were also with Kampfgruppe 'Bruhn' which was in Oosterbeek during the battle. Is there any reference in the soldbuch to him fighting in Arnhem or being wounded around the end of Sept 1944?...that way you can be certain he was in Arnhem.

I look forward to your response and this thread now staying on course.

Cheers

Scott

[Lee Luke]

"I look forward to your response and this thread now staying on course."

Right on target Scott. Too good of a thread to get off track.

[mtdr]

Scott,

Thanks for your reaction, glad you like it. Yes I take the information from that website because it seems to me as a confidential site made by people with the knowledge and interests in the battle of Arnhem. Most of the other sources on the internet also only mention KG Knaust so that's why I presume he was with KG Knaust. My own knowledge about the battle of Arnhem/ Market Garden is not very well as I buy this one for the Normandy/D-Day part.

The only clue he fought in Arnheim is his unit; Panzer Grenadier Ausbidungs Bataillon 64 in Bocholt.
On 26 June 1944 he was send back from Normandy to Germany. I think because he was allowed to join the Fahnenjunker Lehrgang. On 1 July 1944 he was promoted to Fahnenjunker der Reserve as part of Pz.Gr.Aus.Btl. 64. On page 14 is also an entry from 01.09.1944(2 weeks before Market Garden) when he came back from a lazarett in Bocholt as part of the Pz.Gr.Aus.Btl. 64. He don't leave the unit till the end of the war; it was renamed in 1945 to "Panzer Ausbildungs Verband Westfalen". He was badly wounded in 1945.

Regards,

Aram

[dennisb]

Scott, thanks for the support to keep this thread on track!

Scott, could you probably give us a little bit more information about what happened to the men of Panzer-Grenadier-Ersatz-und-Ausbildungs-Bataillon 64 that served in Arnhem? Where they sent back to Bocholt with Pz.-Gren.-Ers-u.-Ausb.-Btl. 64 after Market Garden or was the unit split up and were the men sent to other units in the Arnhem area?

Probably that could shine a light on whether this man served with KG Knaust or not? Should there not be a entry for 'Kampfgruppe Knaust' in the Soldbuch when this man really served in the Arnhem area?

Thanks!

[Hundestaffel]

The title of this thread is "Holland 1944" not "Petty Jealousies 2012"

Stay focused.


"Hundestaffel"

[Revellations]

Scott, thanks for the support to keep this thread on track!

Scott, could you probably give us a little bit more information about what happened to the men of Panzer-Grenadier-Ersatz-und-Ausbildungs-Bataillon 64 that served in Arnhem? Where they sent back to Bocholt with Pz.-Gren.-Ers-u.-Ausb.-Btl. 64 after Market Garden or was the unit split up and were the men sent to other units in the Arnhem area?

At this stage of the war most rules were thrown out the window and what worked on that day was done. So what I have written below is to the best of my knowledge knowing that it was different for individual soldiers.

Pz.-Gren.-Ers-u.-Ausb.-Btl. 64 soldiers fought both at the bridge with Knaust and in Oosterbeek with Bruhn. We know this because after the battle/war when German soldiers were re-interred from field graves in Arnhem and in Oosterbeek they were discovered with their dogs tags on them that refer to Pz.-Gren.-Ers-u.-Ausb.-Btl. 64. So this point is clear. After the destruction of the 1st Airborne Division in the 26th Sept 1944 both Kampfgruppe Knaust and Bruhn were sent to the Betuwe and fought against XXX Corps.

Around the period 7th - 14th Oct 1944 most of the training and replacement battalions fighting in the Betuwe were disbanded. I am aware of examples of soldiers that went from these units to the 10th SS Panzer Division, 9th Panzer Division and the 116th Panzer Division. I am also aware of some of them returning to Wuppertal/Bocholt/Iserlorn etc after the battle as well. The problem is that most of these veterans have passed away so we cant ask them the questions...so all we go on is the items such as soldbuchs etc..however these are not entirly accurate either.

To prove my point: I had lunch in 2008 with an officer from Pz.-Gren.-Ers-Btl. 60 (Rheine) who was sent to Arnhem and fought in the Betuwe for most of Oct 44. His solduch records him being part of Pz.-Gren.-Ers-Btl. 60 until Dec 1944 and then part of 116th Panzer Division.....even though he went from Pz.-Gren.-Ers-Btl. 60 to Battalion Schorken, then as a weapons instructor for two months before being transferred to the 116th Pz Div. All his soldbuch reads is Pz.-Gren.-Ers-Btl. 60 then to 116th Pz Div....missing the detail in between which would prove to me that he fought in Arnhem. However I only know he fought in the battle because he spoke to me in detail about one of the battles in the Betuwe which about 95% of the conversation corresponds to a diary entry I have from a Luftwaffe soldier that was also there.

So I would only assume that Aram's man went to Arnhem...he was in the right place and the right time to go. I could safely assume that all experienced NCOs (that were spare) would have been taken as these types of men were in short supply in late 1944. Maybe one day it will be proven......

[Panzer Rob]

Hi guys,

Considering all of the dates line up, wouldn't it be pretty safe to say that he more than likely did fight at Arnhem with Pz.Gren.Ausb.Batl.64 because of the Pz.Gren.Ausb.Batl.64 unit entry in the Feldtrupp section of the units page?

If the Pz.Gren.Ausb.Batl.64 entry appeared only in the Ersatz und Ausbildungs sections and not in the Feldtrupp section then I'd say there would be much less of a chance - if any.

Rob

[Revellations]

Hi guys,

Considering all of the dates line up, wouldn't it be pretty safe to say that he more than likely did fight at Arnhem with Pz.Gren.Ausb.Batl.64 because of the Pz.Gren.Ausb.Batl.64 unit entry in the Feldtrupp section of the units page?

If the Pz.Gren.Ausb.Batl.64 entry appeared only in the Ersatz und Ausbildungs sections and not in the Feldtrupp section then I'd say there would be much less of a chance - if any.

Rob

Rob,

Good pickup - missed that. Well I think we have our answer - he fought in Arnhem or Oosterbeek with Bruhn or Knaust....hopefully one day you will find out.

Scott