Soldbuch executed

[leigh kitchen]

I had assumed that "gestorben" may be an indication that the book is "closed" as an alternative to the man "executed" - this book is the same price as the other "POW died" SB that the vendor was selling & that I've also bought, it's something to research

[max history]

I'm not too sure the word is "Schuss" (particularly the "u" doesn't seem right) and besides that, I would have expected something like "erschossen" if he would have been executed.

As luck would have it, my German mother-in-law is staying with me at the moment. She is in her 70s and was a member of the BDM during the Hitler years. She reads S******252;tterlin script.
I asked her to look at the word in red and she says that "Schuss" is the only possibility, although the handwriting is very rushed. She also said that the use of either "Schuss" or "erschossen" would be correct, depending on the circumstances.
Gestorben only relates to the man's death.
Max.

[Tommaso]

Starting from the fact that the guy was from the Graz area and Graz was under the Soviet influence starting from the last months of war (april and may) I would presume that the guy was executed as prisoner by Russian.
I got friends whose grandfathers (civilians) from the Leoben (Graz) area were executed by Russian also in the 50's as former whermacht members.
Please, always moaning about the "SS killing squads" is quite pathetic and very boring.

Cheers
T

[Steve Campbell]

So how was the book updated? Did the Soviets take the time to do the paper work on this after they executed the man?

[Simon O.]

Ok guys, as Leigh's bought the book and an interesting discussion's started around the guy's fate i've moved this thread from the E-stand to the appropriate forum.


I have just one SB and WP to a soldier who died as a POW after the end of the war. In this case he died during mine clearing operations in North Norway.

[Simon O.]

Starting from the fact that the guy was from the Graz area and Graz was under the Soviet influence starting from the last months of war (april and may) I would presume that the guy was executed as prisoner by Russian.
I got friends whose grandfathers (civilians) from the Leoben (Graz) area were executed by Russian also in the 50's as former whermacht members.
Please, always moaning about the "SS killing squads" is quite pathetic and very boring.

Cheers
T

He may have been from Graz but his unit wasn't. According to Tessin Festungs flak bataillon 829 was with the 9 Armee and in the area of Frankfurt an der Oder towards the end.

[Tommaso]

I really doubt that on 27.5.45 the Battalion 829 was still active in Frankfurt and der Oder, since as far as I know that area was cleared up at the end of April by the Russians.
If he was a POW exectued why update the Soldbuch? Who did it?

Anyway we can really make all kind of hypotesis, except dark dreams like "Mengele-Gestapo-SS-death squads"...

[Tommaso]

So how was the book updated? Did the Soviets take the time to do the paper work on this after they executed the man?

No, simply the German Autorithies who were holding (as many time I saw) the soldbuch once the guy was dismissed and was back home from the front (27.5.45 then almost one month after the war's end)..

[peter u]

Hello,

In the KL related thread that was on this forum, forummember polux posted a nice wp/sb set of a executed soldier that was 100% authentic.
His crime, the penalty, the militarycourt that convicted him and the date of his execution were all mentioned in both wp and sb.
This is how they should look.
If you as a collector want to go on the quest to find an executed German soldiers wp/sb you first need to know what to look for.
The sb on debat here has absolutly nothing to do with an executed soldier.
A deadsentence has a lot of consequences not only for the soldier being put to dead but also for his relatives; no financial benefits,...etc.
The fact that a soldier was executed would be mentioned in his documents and not only with a simple redstripe and the date of his dead to close off a sb officially.

Cheers,
Peter

[Tim DC]

As luck would have it, my German mother-in-law is staying with me at the moment. She is in her 70s and was a member of the BDM during the Hitler years. She reads S******252;tterlin script.
I asked her to look at the word in red and she says that "Schuss" is the only possibility, although the handwriting is very rushed. She also said that the use of either "Schuss" or "erschossen" would be correct, depending on the circumstances.
Gestorben only relates to the man's death.
Max.

Thanks for your input Max. How about "schluss", which would make much sense here (soldbuch was stopped as he just died like mentionned in the entry above)

[Simon O.]

I really doubt that on 27.5.45 the Battalion 829 was still active in Frankfurt and der Oder, since as far as I know that area was cleared up at the end of April by the Russians.
If he was a POW exectued why update the Soldbuch? Who did it?

Anyway we can really make all kind of hypotesis, except dark dreams like "Mengele-Gestapo-SS-death squads"...

Perhaps a second look at what i actually said may be helpful? I said 'towards the end' deliberately because i know full well it was overrun in April but there are no specific dates as to when the unit was there, only that it was in '45. That it was with the 9 Armee is perhaps more relevant, destroyed in the Halbe pocket maybe.

It could be that he wasn't a POW at all but one of the many thousands trying to slip through to the Western allied lines. A great many were caught or died trying to avoid capture.


BTW, the name is not listed on the volksbund database.

[paulj]

Just a thought, but, considerig the placement of the unit and the date, it could be that the man was a POW in a Russian adminstrated camp or work detail.

I have an MA in German, studied there and worked for a German company in Frankfurt/M for almost 20 years...collecting and researching all the while. I can pretty much handle Suetterlin as well as any grandma...probably better since most grandmas aren't real familiar with German military terminology or usage.

The red entry is neither Schluss nor Schuss...neither really makes sense in this context and even given the hurried handwriting theory, there aren't really enough letters for either and the letter formation isn't really there either. Besides, the common practice is to put a line over a "u" to differentiate it from an "n" in handwriting. There isn't one, so...

With my basic knowledge of Russian, the red entry could be cyrillic. Maybe a Russian speaker among us can take a look.

The dated entries are both made by the same person - perhaps a Russian medical officer, so the entry "gestorben" is written in German for the document but signed in cyrillic.

Another detail supports the Russian theory - as shown, the typical German clerical marking for deceased is the red line or X across the personal information page.

[Lasse Kongo]

Red writing is cyrillic.

It is just a translation in Russian of of the word gestorben.

No schuss, no shooting, no execution here...........just a old man who happened to die after war eneded.

Lasse

[peter u]

Hello;

This is a nice thread!
Again something is exposed that it in fact isn't was it is pretending to be.


Items that have a connextion with an executed soldier are very rare and sought after.


Cheers,
Peter

[SpanischeSS]

I am the seller

Hi,


I was told that the Russian writing is the word for executed. I could not find this man on the volksbund which we all know happens. We do know hes dead. So, what is the Russian written word really mean??????