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    #16
    Hi Roger,

    Great to see some better scans now !!!

    As I wrote you in a pm I can not read the name of the Leutnant who closed the WP.

    Interesting puzzle you have there, as your man served on different uboats.

    See that the EK.2 document was signed by Peters.......Norwegen, and U-86 never was there stationed !!!, so he must have been on another submarine in that period.

    Now about the entries.
    Training:
    Mot.III Lehrgang.
    U.- Lehrgang.
    U.- Mot.II Lehrgang.

    Rank/promotions:
    Maschinengefreiten.
    Maschinenobergefreiten
    Maschinenhauptgefreiten.
    Maschinenmaaten.

    The first two mentioned Feindfahrten / Warpatrols he made on UA.:

    UA. Left Kiel 27.4.1940, arrived at Trondheim 2.5.1940, 5.5.1940 left Trondheim, arrived at Kiel 10.5.1940, and ended her first active warpatrol.

    UA. Left Kiel 6.6.1940, 7 ships sunk, arrived at Kiel 30.8.1940, and ended her second active warpatrol.

    Have to find the other sub(s).

    He was in October 1943 transferred to U-86.

    U-86, Left Brest 30.10.1943 and returned 1.11.1943 with technical problems.

    U-86, Left Brest 11.11.1943., she was sunk 14.12.1943, so the date in the WP is correct.

    yours friendly

    Eric-Jan Bakker

    ps , now knowing that he wasn't all the time on U-86, it may no longer be interesting for you, so you can sell it to me now !!!

    Comment

      #17
      Roger's uboot Wehrpaß, part 2.

      Roger, your man served on UA, U-622 and U-86.

      U-622.

      - 12.10.1942 left Bergen, 12.11.1942 arrived at Skjomenfjord, 14.11.1942 left Skjomenfjord, 17.11.1942 arrived at Bergen.

      - 28.12.1942 left Bergen, 28.1.1943 arrived at Harstadt, 29.1.1943 left Harstadt, 29.1.1943 arrived at Skjomenfjord.

      - 9.2.1943 left Skjomenfjord, 9.2.1943 arrived at Harstadt, 10.2.1943 left Harstadt, 15.3.1943 arrived Skjomenfjord, 16.3.1943 left Skjomenfjord, 18.3.1943 arrived at Trondheim.

      - 17.5.1943 left Trondheim, 21.5.1943 arrived at Hammerfest.

      - 29.5.1943 left Hammerfest, 5.6.1943 arrived at Hammerfest.

      - 14.6.1943 left Hammerfest, 10.7.1943 arrived at Trondheim.

      24.7.1943 , U-622 was sunk in a USAAF bombing raid on Trondheim harbour.

      yours friendly

      Eric-Jan Bakker

      Comment

        #18
        Ian, thanks for noting he was on a different boat - and Eric, great ship breakout and I appreciate the training and promotion explanations! How can you tell the boat numbers on which he served, and the dates? Do you have to decipher the flotillas, or is it more obvious?

        When the seller first offered the Wehrpass, I almost passed on it because he said pages 12 and 13 were blank - I thought he was a pensioner. Page 32 looked pretty good though!

        When did Willi Folger first go on combat patrol? Were the UA vessels training boats? Sorry for my ignorance on all things U-boat - it's great having knowledgeable fellow collectors!

        s/f Robert

        Comment

          #19
          Originally posted by RobertE View Post
          Ian, thanks for noting he was on a different boat - and Eric, great ship breakout and I appreciate the training and promotion explanations! How can you tell the boat numbers on which he served, and the dates? Do you have to decipher the flotillas, or is it more obvious?

          When the seller first offered the Wehrpass, I almost passed on it because he said pages 12 and 13 were blank - I thought he was a pensioner. Page 32 looked pretty good though!

          When did Willi Folger first go on combat patrol? Were the UA vessels training boats? Sorry for my ignorance on all things U-boat - it's great having knowledgeable fellow collectors!

          s/f Robert
          Roger,
          Well it isn't that obvious !!!
          One have to check the dates for the warpatrols, days that the submarine was at sea.
          You see that the man who closed the Wehrpaß took for U-622 a couple of sailings during a period - all together - for one warpatrol.
          Comparing that dates with books, one can see that the date the submarine left is the same, but that the arrival dates the clerk used in your booklet are different from the books !!!
          Those dates for the Norway based submarines who go in and out a harbour, or transferred to another place so often, makes the puzzle a bit harder.

          UA was a full combat submarine, originaly ordered by the Turkish Navy, but at the outbreak of the war taken over by the German Navy.
          She made 7 patrols, sunk 7 ships and damaged another one.
          24.4.1942 she ended her last warpatrol and became a training boat.
          The 7 ships were sunk when your man was aboard !
          Your man received his UBootskriegsabzeichen after two warpatrols, so one can say that UA was his first combat submarine he served on.

          yours

          Eric-Jan Bakker

          Comment

            #20
            Willi Folger.
            20.6.1918. - 14.12.1943.

            Served on:

            UA. = 27.4.1940 - 30.8.1940, made the first 2 warpatrols on that submarine as Matrosenobergefreiten.

            U-622. = 12.10.1942 - 24.7.1943, made all warpatrols on U-622 as Matrosenhauptgefreiten and from 1.8.1942 as Maschinenmaaten

            U-86. = 10.1943 - 14.12.1943, made the last 2 warpatrols on U-86 as Maschinenmaaten.


            yours

            Eric-Jan Bakker

            Comment

              #21
              Eric, I see the process now. While the ship hull numbers are not listed, the dates for each patrol correspond to a boat in the flotilla. The dates do differ in terms of patrol start/complete dates from that which is listed on the research sites, but they are clear enough to identify the boat he was serving on at the time.

              Interesting U-622 was sunk in the harbor. Were any crew members on board, or was she tied up to the pier? He transfered off U-622 for his final cruises with U-86, and he was with that boat until it was sunk, so I wonder if the crew was physically on board when the boat went down inthe harbor.

              s/f Robert

              Comment

                #22
                Really nice group! Rare to find a group from a sailor that saw uboat combat over several years of service. UA is also a interesting boat.
                Regards
                Petrus

                Comment

                  #23
                  Originally posted by RobertE View Post
                  Eric, I see the process now. While the ship hull numbers are not listed, the dates for each patrol correspond to a boat in the flotilla. The dates do differ in terms of patrol start/complete dates from that which is listed on the research sites, but they are clear enough to identify the boat he was serving on at the time.

                  Interesting U-622 was sunk in the harbor. Were any crew members on board, or was she tied up to the pier? He transfered off U-622 for his final cruises with U-86, and he was with that boat until it was sunk, so I wonder if the crew was physically on board when the boat went down inthe harbor.

                  s/f Robert
                  Robert,
                  Maybe I don't understand clearly what is going on here, don't know if I see it right, but you have so many questions and I want to answer them for you although it is a lot of work.

                  In your replies on my answers I read : "....or is it more obvious", "....I see the progress now", "....listed on the research sites, but they are clear enough to identify the boat".

                  Let me tell you that you can not find all the U-622 sailing information on the internet, only the dates U-622 left port to sea, NOT the dates between leaving port and arriving at harbour again !!!!
                  That information comes from the uboats KTB.

                  When it is all so clear for you, and you can find your answers on the internet by yourself, why do we see here a next question, about U-622 sinking and if crewmembers were on board ?

                  Last answer:
                  U-622 was sunk by a near hit, while being refueled by the vessel Munkholm, 11 crewmembers were on board at that time, and they were all 11 able to leave the sinking submarine.

                  Maybe you could find that answer yourself on the internet.
                  Yes there are photos of UA, U-622 and U-86, her crew and their COs, but I think you will find them too on the internet yourself.

                  yours

                  Eric-Jan Bakker

                  Comment

                    #24
                    Sorry to have annoyed you, Eric, that was certainly not my intention. I don't have any U-boat references, and looked through the internet U-boat tools which were available. I certainly didn't want to make you do work on my behalf, and don't mind looking the information up - that's most of the fun. You have helped me with information that didn't appear to be publically available, for instance; U-622 is shown as being sunk on multiple on-line sites, but I didn't find the number of crew men on board, or if any survived. I have found the patrol dates, however, but didn't know how you determined which boat my Wehrpass holder served.

                    I was mistaken in thinking we were having a discussion between collectors, and apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused you. Thanks for the help! Regards, Robert

                    Comment

                      #25
                      Originally posted by RobertE View Post
                      Sorry to have annoyed you, Eric, that was certainly not my intention. I don't have any U-boat references, and looked through the internet U-boat tools which were available. I certainly didn't want to make you do work on my behalf, and don't mind looking the information up - that's most of the fun. You have helped me with information that didn't appear to be publically available, for instance; U-622 is shown as being sunk on multiple on-line sites, but I didn't find the number of crew men on board, or if any survived. I have found the patrol dates, however, but didn't know how you determined which boat my Wehrpass holder served.

                      I was mistaken in thinking we were having a discussion between collectors, and apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused you. Thanks for the help! Regards, Robert

                      ......."annoyed you". !
                      ......."I was mistaken in thinking we were having a discussion between collectors, and apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused you".

                      - I too thought that it was a discussion between collectors.
                      - Even with the first blurry scans I tried to help you out.
                      - With the better scans, I tried to find out as much as possible on your man and the subs he served on.
                      - You are not the only one with questions I try to give a helping hand, lots of them more around and not only on this site.
                      - It just sounded if the research I did for your man and the subs he was on was very simple and done in a wink of an eye

                      THANKS for the thanks.

                      yours

                      Eric-Jan Bakker

                      Comment

                        #26
                        My thanks are sincere, to you and the other contributors. I hope I can help you out if the future on an area of which I'm knowledgeable. I do appreciate your time, Eric, and the research you did on my behalf. I'm not in familiar "waters" so to speak on U-boat, and this discussion has helped with my understanding of what this U-boat man did on active service.

                        s/f Robert

                        Comment

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